German Car Forum

At last something to seriously look for

I know most of you wanted a flagship above the 7er, but I like the idea of 6er CS (or GT) much better. CS concept was great, but too long (and heavier for it, most likely). The 6er more compact dimensions should lend itself towards a more dynamic car. It should also be within reach of more people.
When can this 6er GT be expected? Before or after the 6er coupe?

So this is the innovation that the competitors have overlooked? Rear suicide door? I don't think that this is a very big step forward - design wise. It's just a different approach to the whole GT/4door coupe idea.

On the other hand, there is danger for the car to be called RX8 immitator or RollsRoyce wannabe..

Actually there is a market for such a car (GT6). BMW need something to face the new CLS and A7, since MB and Audi respectively have already filled that niche market. The current 6er is not a 4door car, nor the 5/7er are niche enough to compete with the CLS/A7. So such a car does make sense, leaving the marketing aside.

On the other hand, given the success of the RR brand, and the absence of a market for such a car, it is a fact that anything above the 7er, based on the Concept CS would be a suicide. I know that i'd die to see what the BMW design team have created as a GT7, but i know that (1) I won't see it and (2) that such a car, won't be made, at least soon enough!

Yeah, nobody is saying this is never before seen innovation. This car will be made to combat the CLS and A7, simple as that.

I'm really excited about that car,that segment is on fire

I think it could get the "four-door coupe" idea a little bit further.

Coupe usually have longer doors, to allow the entry for rear passengers. It also give them a more elongated, visually lower stance than four shorter doors.

The rear suicide-doors ala RX-8 could give the car this little Coupe-touch that the others don't have, because the rear doors will be short and the front long, the whole looking even more like a Coupe than the others featuring conventional doors.

Pretty sleek idea if you ask me. I like that.

Once again BMW's obsession with niche is driving the company in the wrong direction. Although the Mazda RX8 door configuration is cool, it gives no added value. The rear doors can't be opened independently and are still too small for a normal adult to be able to comfortably crawl into the cramped back seat. In terms of utility, courdoor coupes are already compromised in terms of utility and the Mazda Rx8 configuration is an additional step into the wrong direction.

On the other hand the E92 has a very generous back seat and a coupe based on the F10 would probably have an even larger green house making two latches a bonus. What will determine the success is the design of the car, with such compromised utility it will have to be incredibly attractive.

What I think is the worst part of this is how BMW changes its mind like the wind changes its direction. We´ve been hearing since ages how anti-M philosophy was the fact of having a M7 of a X5 M. Months ago, Scott told us (of course assuming he just tells the thoughts of BMW at that moment) that BMW wanted to stand out from the crowd, not having a 4 door coupe as Merc or Audi.

Then it comes the CS Concept, sold as the new BMW flagship, having a design-restrained F01 because of this. And now we have a who-knows-what 4 door 6er that will do the same as a CLS, or what is the same, it will be the same as the competition.

So Scott is in Chicago next week.

Yeah, where can we find him?

Usually in some fancy hotel.

The problem is he is not Scott at all.

Try with "that annoying BMW guy".


Eh, Scott ...

The Huckfeldts.

Yah, I prefer that much more than this :

Perhaps, maybe just perhaps ... the F14 6er GT may look similar to CS Concept. Perhaps, just perhaps.

Remember ... the Z9 Concept was also based on 7er platform - since BMW wasn't sure either to revive 6er or 8er. They opted for 6er.

Perhaps ... just perhaps ... the history is repeating.

And the GTs are a bit different than the regular Series.

when it is due ? can I raise my hopes high for 2010 launch ?

Oh,I know his name is not Scott But he's stuck with that nickname now

Fancy hotel? Hmm.......

it would still be interesting to meet him in person.

So let me get this right, now BMW is going to build (or so rumored) a direct competitor to the CLS based on the next 6-Series?

M

Not really. The car will have a completely different character. It will be much more coupeish than sedanish. With typical large coupeish front doors, while rear ones will be smaller - and design ala Clubman (or RX-8). It will be a "more practical" 6er.

BMW 6er is a base here ... and a GT is just a step further. To make it a bit more interesting & appealing to some different base of customers than the regular 6er coupe - which is a typical large coupe. 6er GT as a "spatial coupe" - as Scott named it. It will be different than the other "4dr coupes" in the segment. Imagine smaller CS with Clubman door(s). Some ideas are also leaning towards Shooting-Brake-ish shape.

So ... in the end it may end up as smaller CS with small-ish suicide rear doors ala Clubman ... also without B-pillar ... and Shooting-Brake-ish rear. Something like this impression of Mustang Shooting Brake Concept (only with Clubman rear doors).

Oh like a Saturn ION Quad Coupe or Mazda RX8, I see.

M

Yes. Or MINI Clubman.

Yet very coupe-like (low, sleek, aggressive) ... with very possible shooting-brake rear end.

The GT-s.
6er GT will also preview a 1er GT - which will also be a shooting brake - based on 1er coupe ... probably with only a pair of side doors, or Clubman like configuration (2+1). Perhaps even a future substitute for 1er 3dr hatch.

While 3er GT will be more like 5er GT - more practical, a bit higher than sedan / touring. But more sporty oriented (also even a bit more coupe-ish) - while 5er GT is more luxurious than sporty.

Future (when revived) 7er GT will be a typical large (over 5m) 4dr coupe ala Panamera, or Rapide. Coupeish, low, sporty & luxurious.


And the X-s?
X6 is a 4dr / 5dr SACoupe, X4 will be a 4dr / 5dr SASedan (see Lagonda Concept), X2 will be a 2dr / 3dr SACoupe or even SAcabrio - a very funky car: very much in line with x-Coupe idea - some ideas are leaning towards a 2-seater just like x-coupe.

Is there a general timeline for 6GT?

First let me explain the philosophy of the GT Series and indeed the GT 5.
This series is all about seeing BMW through different eyes and indeed the spatial concept such models will offer are totally different characters from what is typical from BMW or any other premium manufacturer.

At BMW there is a think tank (think project BLUE) As discussed by Chris Bangle in a interesting and humorous project regarding what can replace the SUV which the initial idea led to the Concept Car BMW XCoupe.
Now taking that idea and progressing it further through our think tank that determines and initiates developments that how can a typical vehicle concept be progressed?

The first production model to stem from the creative process of this think tank was indeed the BMW X6 - Itself an idea of how to progress the SAV to attract premium performance coupe customers.
The next idea was the realisation that no one is getting younger these days and indeed the typical BMW customer , The idea was to then how to Progress the typical luxury sedan.
Seeing the Progressive Activity Sedan through different eyes allows you to understand the idea and the concept itself after having introduced the car to many at Geneva allowing people to sit inside , try the driving position and the seating arrangements and many have come away impressed , especially when they try the car and have a sense of it's ambience and space, Indeed BMW.CH have already a substantial amount of interest in the car on the strength of it's appearence at Geneva.

One way to sum up the inclusion of the GT series is "Natural Progression"
GT 5 is the progression of a luxury sedan , GT 3 is the progression of a Sports wagon and GT 6 is a progression of a premium sports Coupe.

How can a GT 6 become more innovative than the available and incoming competition? GT 6 will be the first BMW (not counting niche models like Z ,X or GT) to have a full hatchback , and unique passenger entry .
Although used to great effect within the MINI Clubman , Rolls-Royce and originally conceived for the BMW RFK Project .
The GT 6 will get rear hinged opening doors like the Mazda RX-8 and a left/right split interior for four.
BMW GT 6 will be all about dynamics , performance and style.

The Porsche Panamera although a true sports car and of course a true addition to the Porsche bloodline seems to have missed the idea of making a beautiful design to go with that performance and engineering . The Panamera will be successful because it is a Porsche although to many the Panamera's looks seem to be an acquired taste.

BMW are working on a car that is intent to really stand out from the competition , than means a fully fleged design concept that will seperate BMW from the rest. The driving position is said to be requested to be very to the ground , passengers should sink into the seats , structural issues are taken care of by strengthened pillars and additional reinforcement of the chassis , This will not make the GT 6 the heaviest car in the segment as innovative techniques such as aluminium , magnesium and carbon fibre will be used extensively. The pillars and roof of the car will be injected with foam that when hardens provides stability as well as being a lightweight addition to the construction.

Petrol Engines will be only V8's with Twin-Turbo's , including a Hybrid and the M Division will offer their expertise as the car will offer unique potential. BMW will offer a upgraded six cylinder diesel engine increased to offer more performance.

Potential customers to the GT 6 will be attracted by it's style and performance. The brief is to offer something progressive on the Premium sports Coupe will a different angle to a 6er Coupe , They will share some resemeblence but not the same style or prospects in driving dynamics .

MINI SpaceBox is what the term describes it as a MINI with extra space and flexibility . If the upcoming MINI X is for the Slopes dues to its raised presence, Then MINI SpaceBox is aiming to join the growing crowd of flexible City cars which are becoming more popular by the day.
Like MINI-X , MINI SpaceBox will offer five doors but offer an more unique perspective to the MINI-X. MINI SpaceBox is seen to be with the roadheight of a traditional MINI and not as much raised as the MINI-X.

MINI spaceBox is about the concept of Space in a MINI , a traditional five door of the traditional MINI is not exactly what MINI customers want , they want more space but they do not want the dilution of the brand by offering a MINI 3dr with two extra doors.

The interesting aspect of the Concept in the design brief is that MINI SpaceBox like any other MINI can be conceived in four angles in personalisation - Basic , comfort , luxury and sportiness , like the upcoming MINI-X the customer can select their ideal package for their needs.

MINI SpaceBox is not to be seen as an enlarged Clubman. But some ideas are carried over , The rear doors are similar although one door is larger for larger objects. Two foldaway seats that emerge from the bootfloor increase the MINI SpaceBox's flexibility , rear seats can be chosen as two seperate or a bench for 3.

MINI SpaceBox takes it's name from the amount of space that will be open to passengers. A typical panorama roof can be suggested but also can a full length glass roof split into sections and a long strip of glass running through the middle of the roof. Inside the interior there are sculptured roof linings for an increase of rear headroom.

The design is typical MINI although with the rear split doors , the rear passenger doors will offer recessed door handles in the rear pillar , with several options considered by the designers for openings , BMW are looking for something unique to the SpaceBox.
There is a vast amount of glass exposed (frameless) that increases the SpaceBox feel inside the car , The idea is to give the MINI a more feeling of space from todays typical MINI. The Roof is more raised and more curved at the top and floats on the glasshouse , The rear of the car not following the Clubman with silver and black facings will be body coloured.


Both GT 6 and MINI SpaceBox will be shown as concepts in the not so distant future.

I am not so sure if this direction of the BMW marketing/design department towards style and usability is in pair with the typical BMW virtues, see best driving dynamics... It's just a concern that i would hate to become true...