German Car Forum

Mercedes and McLaren part ways on next supercar

For years, McLaren and Mercedes seemingly went together like peanut butter and jelly, but now HWA is stepping in to tune Mercedes' next supercar. The scribes over at Automotive News Europe say the separation stems from Mercedes' dissatisfaction with the performance of the SLR McLaren vs. its primary rivals. This comes as quite a shock since only a few months back, all signs pointed to Mercedes buying McLaren. It's not exactly as though McLaren and Mercedes are splitting up altogether, though, as it's been less than a month since a drop-dead gorgeous SLR McLaren drop-top was announced.

Power for the HWA-tuned supercar will come from a tweaked version of AMG's hand-built 6.2L engine, and if the SLR performance is less than satisfactory, expect HWA's effort to be flat-out ridiculous. Speaking of AMG, the new supercar will be badged as such to make it road-legal, but it will still be a full-blown HWA race-developed product. To make room for its latest project, HWA is tripling the size of its manufacturing facilities to 3,600 sq. ft. to the tune of €4.5 million.

We find it almost comical that McLaren's 3.5 second 0-60 time and 640hp aren't enough to suit the finicky folks in Stuttgart, but with Corvettes and Vipers on the way with the same power for a quarter of the price, Mercedes had to do something to raise the already ridiculously-high bar.

[Source: Autoblog.com via Motor Authority]

I can't say I'm overly upset by this news. Don't get me wrong, the SLR was/is an interesting project, but it's time to move on.

I agree, the problem with the SLR was compromise and it ending up creating a car which didn't know what it was!

Mclaren wanted a modern day Mclaren F1, light as possible, and all about the driving experience, while Mercedes wanted a GT car which was happy at driving hundreds of miles. Seeing as most of the money was coming from Mercedes, it ended it with a very fast car, but not the kind Mclaren wanted!

McLaren should have been left to make what they wanted.

Ofcourse Caparo shows the right recepy.

damn HWA.. wow this is a dream.. man HWA.. ppl dont know..
but they will know very soon
be afraid is all i can say

Great news. I really didn't see any future in their collab. They are like oil and water. The SLR was 70% MB(not megabyte ) 30% Mclaren.

in that case the new car will be 70 procent MB to..so HWA wont do any good by your and most calculations then luw?

MB is really crazy about power,i can't believe they consider the 650hp 722 is not powerful enough!!

It all depends on how MB wants to pull this off. The SLR turned out to be a sporty GT rather than a super sports car like it's competitor. The CLK DTM on the other hand was as raw as a car in that price range should be.
So there we have two different type of sports cars from the MB. What course they'll take this time, we don't know. Which ever course they take their car will probably be successful like the SLR has been, because there are those who want an ultra sporty GT with killer looks.

^yep.. but i belive they will go with the sporty ness.. cause remember..HWA is hardcore.. its bad to the bone.. there is no point in calling on HWA if you wanna go soft..
and as the article says a full blown race developed HWA product

PS
I wonder what bmw fans say about this..as they defend BMWs decision of not makin a supercar with the arguement that it isnt profitable..
now we are seeing MB goin into their second supercar in a short time.. and given that MB is a less sporty brand than BMW.. how do you guys feel about this?
are MB being stupid and betting on a product that isnt profitable or does the company any good..
or are BMW acting cowardly?

MB needs a halo car as a proponent of sportiness to improve its image and advance it in the sporty direction
BMW doesn't need this
BMW needs a CS to emphasize lux and comfort in tandem with dporty and handling prouesse
when the halo effect of BWM will be diluted in new models by all brands, then and then alone will the need of a supercar arise
MB has already completed its whoring expansion witha million models, and it has been proven that marketing wise not all are succesful, BMW is rearinf for its own expansion, time will tell of the results

so halo products should emphasise the values your brand does NOT stand for traditionally?

Mercedes already has two Halo cars, the S-class and CL, when it comes to luxury and comfort no other cars beat them. The SLR and DTM are just icing on the cake.

^agree half MB´s range is freakin halo cars (S,CL,SL,SLR,DTM,BlackSeries)..
and now this.. .. aint nothing wrong with that.. its just more for us.. and more domination over several markets..

PS
This is going down for sure..HWA has a brand new super nice website.. before their website was a joke..it was a quest to only find it..
now its complete with news and pics..

This is what the latest press release says

Production start in the new building is planned for December 2007. A new project in the segment road sports car will present the HWA AG in the spring 2008 and will put thus the foundation-stone for dynamic growth.

"in the future it is our goal in cycles of approx.. to manufacture 15 months new projects in limited series of high-quality road sports cars.

this is what HWA has been involved in or made in terms of road cars:

one off limited production cars have less effect than a totally dedicated halo sports car.
MB does not have a sporty image associated with it.
and the S and CL are not halo cars in the modern sense of the world
in the past when hitler was driven in one it could have served, but now a halo car is a low (not limited) extremely inaccesible, standard production vehicle with a twist
say an SLR or a CGT or a Veyron
MB had the SLR, but it didn't provide the effect neede
the compromise the SLR was only reinforced the idea of comfort over sport.
they wanted something to present a sporty image
at BMW, this si not the case. the sporty image has been established for very long
what they need is a RR BMW bridge, i.e. a CS and Z8

^so still you say that a halo car should push forward other values than what a brand is traditionally known for

i must say i dissagree..as it should just be an proof of the absolute best a brand has to give at the moment

PS
CGT,SLR and veyron ( not sure about this one) are limited cars..

This is a good thing, hope to see a more coherent car.

You're wrong about the SLR it did provide the desired effect, there was crazy media attention around it when it was launched and even years after that. Another thing is that super cars are not only attractive because of their performance but partly because of their design, which is a department which MB mastered with the SLR.
I can with confidence say that 90% of all super sports cars aren't driven to their limit nonetheless driven on tracks. Most buyers admire then for the acceleration and design. The SLR with it slightly softer suspension set itself apart from the other super cars and history has proven that there has been a market for the SLR since MB has already sold over 1000 of them. Customers step into MB dealers for comfort rather than sport and that is what they should get, and not a very stiff racer a'la GT3RS.

not necessarily artist
a halo car can be sued for many purposes
they can be used to strengthen brand values, like say a CGT did, or to push the brand image into something differenet
like MB tried to do. MB already HAD sporty models, but as a brand it wasn't perceived as sporty, with the SLR they wanted to add sporty to their brand value
but this in some essence failed, because the SLR by the reckoning fo most is not a real sporty drive, it is a long slung GT, a wonderful car by all means, and it did serve to reinforce the MB image of comfort, lux etc.... in whatever segment, but it didn't push the brand iage in new directions, even with the mclaren logo

a limited production vehicle is one which is set to say 50 or 100 units
the CGT SLR etc... have a production in the 1000's which though "limited" is in fact not much hlower than the actual deamand

MB went with the former direction.

That sentence is so wrong. That's like saying BMW wanted to add off roading to their brand with the X5. The aim of the SLR was to develop a performance car without over compromising comfort. It is simply about adding a new product to the line up for people who wanted a slightly sportier MB.

It didn't fail, people have embraced it. It would have failed if people didn't buy it. There has always been the option of buying the Murcielago or the CGT for those who wanted a 100% pure sports car.



The term "Halo car" doesn't evolve around sportiness you know.

yep vabboud i agree halo cars are not only 1 thing today
but to me they should always be the best of the brand know how...
doesent matter what type of car.. but often the best of a brands know how is what they know best.. BMW claim that Sport is what they know best.. so their halo car should be a sports car..
and MB claims comfort.. and it has halo cars in that area..
but at the same time they are pushing new halo cars into new directions
wich arent really new for MB
MB have been making sportscars for many many years..
and their involvement in racing is also something that is a traditionall MB thing

no it doesn't luwa, like i said previousely
a halo car has many intents
the X5 is NOT a halo car, a CS or Z8 is
whether or not the SLR was a sales success is different from what the message ebhind it was
i believe the chief and early press releases focused on sportiness as the main attribute
if the SLr was to focus on sportiness and introduce it teh MB ethos, it has failed in this respect
if MB intended something else with it, then so be it
in both cases profitability and sales man nothing

in my understanding the sport was emphasized in the SLR, you might think otherwise
fact is, unless zietche himself goes out and says which of us is right we will never know, and this will remain a point of contention

just to add something to artist:
when anybody is asked their first impression about mb, they say comfort and lux, not sport
regardless of the original SLR, the silver arrow and the history

halo cars are major marketing tools, and do in fact show the max know how of the brand.
this is why they can be used to showcase and strengthen current brand values
or to prove that yes we can do something else and excell at it

^i dont think even dieter knows..lol..he wasent around when they made the concept..haha

it's a bit of a kantian dilemna
about the original intention behind the SLR, not necessarily the outcome (i.e. sales) you are approoaching it from a more holistic approach that since it sold well, then whatever the original intention was, it must have been good

so your answer to the question : is mb stupid by going with this project or are bmw cowards by not making a sportscar?