German Car Forum

So jealous that Merc is being chosen by taxi companies rather than bmw?
no one except fanboyz want to be driven in bwm "premium" intreriors?

Did it ever occur to anybody that the hood isn't properly closed here?

I've seen such cars at dealerships where customers examined the engine, brought down the bonnet when they were done but didn't close it properly. This looks like such a case to me.

The "gaps" visible in this shot are way to big to have been designed "on purpose".




Also, comparing the interiors of the W212 and F10 5-Series from a design and quality perspective and then claiming one is better than the other is just childish. Design and the quality materials are completely subjective issues. What looks cheap to person A looks expensive to person B. There's no right or wrong. It's that simple.

Both cars have great interiors from a design and quality perspective if you ask me. Period. This shouldn't even be an argument.

Gaps are the same size on every shot i've seen, so i believe it's supposed to be like this

The gaps in this shot appear far smaller than the gaps in the shot KA posted. I believe the large side gap under the bonnet acts as a "design accent". Something that is supposed to introduce a bit of sleekness and sport into the design of the car. The W204 C-Class has it to.

I am pretty sure there was a similar discussion on 7er hood, and of course the panel gap police were clamoring how it is low quality.

I guess a bunch of us missed this memo. When Benz has gaps, it is design accents, Bimmer has gaps, it is low quality.

It's a crushing victory for the bimmer in this poll. 105 votes vs 60 vs 8 votes for A6
A total of 173 votes, never ever have we had so so many members in a poll before. Must be a record!

Yes, it is a big suprise to see how many votes it is as well as the amount the votes the 5 series got compared to the E-class.

But...I just got back from the DC Auto Show. Got a chance to sit in the E-class and I LOVED it!

Yup, it's the double standard some here have I've noticed it first hand today with the infraction I got today from our mod team.

Can you expand on your experience HOH? I think it looks much better IRL but I haven't been inside one yet. W212 AMG there by chance?

Some other people don´t need to have such a double standard, they seem to be proud of trolling everytime the can about the VERY same brand.

Yes, the E63 AMG was there....of course no one could sit in it. I will start a new thread on it with some photos as soon as I get a chance.

I will have to go back though...spent so long in the Benz section I only got a minute or two in BMW and Audi. Went on my lunch hour.

The same discussion is up now regarding a picture of the E-class. These things will always happen...

This discussion is because of the 'panel gaps' on the 7er according to some...

Indeed. That that respect, IMO it's another sort of "deisgn flaw", i.e bad design by the designer/s.

That looks normal to me. That hood gap for the 212 is always pretty large, even some owners have complained, some people have even had alignment problems, and had to get it fixed by the dealer. I dunno, IMO it looks the furthest thing from sleek.

About the interior, I sat in an E63 the other day, and anyone who REALLY knows M-B's, and AMG's SHOULD be horrified at the cost cutting M-B did. It uses the same horribly cheap, scratchy/shiny headliner as the C-Class (no more alcantra, and even my W211 E-Class uses a premium/luxurious "wool" type lining on the A-Pillars, and nicer headliner), NO more Nappa Leather, just the cheap basic M-B Leather, and so on and so on.

Aside from the 212's interior design (which I personally don't like, but I don't like cubic and hard/box designs), I can point out numerous materials and areas that have been downgraded, hardened, and how I see it, "cheapened" from the W211. Lots of plastic now where fancy carpeting, or softer, more "plusher" materials used to be. A guy on another Board owns a new Acura (forgot the model) and a new W212, and was saying how the materials in his new E are so much harder, and less "luxurious" than what's in his Acura.

Basically that's one of the main reasons I'm so negative about this car. I had the same opinion about the E60, which is one of many reasons I chose a W211 over it, now that the cars have switched places, the W212 becomes the E60 to me, and the F10 seemingly and HOPEFULLY will take the place of where the W211 left off, for my personal tastes.

The E-class has grown on me as time has passed, and in dark colors, the fussy lines are well-hidden. But the 5er is my choice, as I can't really find any flaw to the car...powerful yet decently efficient engine, good interior and truck room, and lovely, purposeful design, both inside and out. THe only disappointment I have with the 5er is that a midsize-classed car ought not to way 2 tons. I did notice that the 5er has similar glovebox door and driver-side storage to the 7er. In the 7er, I found those interior components to be flimsy and sub-par compared to the rest of the interior.

I want the 5er. Now.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I love debating this kind of stuff so by all means, I appreciate the Reply.

The fact that the 212 is reduced $5K is indeed a big deal. And of course, as it should be, the car has many evolving improvements. However, what I'm saying is, M-B has a tricky way of cutting corners on their new models, which saves lots of $$, just look at the 204, i.e an embarrasing interior for an M-B. The 212's interior is nice all in all, but the materials have suffered, lots of crude and cheap-ish materials where the 211 didn't.

Quality in many aspects of the car are of course improved, but I think on an interior materials refinement level, the quality is down, i.e the quality of materials, not actual build-quality/solidity (which is I'm expecting is improved).

M-B needs to show profits, through and through, they won't drop $5K from these cars without making up for it somewhere. At the same time, M-B built the W212 flat broke practically, so it makes sense that their motto with the car is less "elegant/refined" than the 211, yet more bulldog/strong than it.

I absolutely expect and am happy the E is going over so well in some of these Reviews, all E's have, the 211 was winning awards and Ranked the top car in its class in many respects in its 7th running year, so the 212 would have to be a total flop to drop the ball, aside from my opinion that the 212 won't age well design-wise, I'm sure it'll be winning awards through its whole life-production-span as well. To note however, the W212 has come in last place in one or two U.S Rags, in comparison tests, which is horrible, but I don't put much into a lot of these Mags, and I think the previous gens drivetrain has a lot to do with that, which will be changed in 2011.

I really wanted the new E-Class before I knew what it was, i.e I love my W211 so much, an enhanced model made me so excited. What I saw was something that looked completely different, i.e it doesn't share any of the same personality, and I saw a car with a cheapened interior, in a *refinement/attention to detail/materials quality* respect, without the same "richness" I feel from the 211's interior. I just can't see myself spending more money for something that doesn't give me more of what I liked from the 211. That's much of the reason I am so bitter toward the car. I still try and get myself to warm up to it, and really actually have improved my views of it, and appreciate it more, but it'll always be a disappointment to me, even if I do convince myself one day to buy one.

I feel at this point, I am forced to move to a W221 if want to replace my E with a new M-B, I guess maybe it's a good thing.

Oh, to keep all that relevant to the F10. I am very very eager to have the F10 win my heart back, and I guess, "Go back to BMW". I've hated BMW's designs for the past decade practically, and now with M-B copying the Bangle gen themselves, BMW is my only hope, per-se. I didn't like fussy, hard lined angular looks, and big blocky interiors when BMW was doing it, and I don't when M-B is . Oddly, I find many M-B fans who used to complain about the BMW styling theme, now are following the brand, and defending the same look. Like the new E-Coupe or not, it must be admitted BMW hasn't build something that fussy, and it obviously is a direct influence from BMW.

I will be crying a river if IRL I don't like the F10. If I do, I plan on getting one and hopefully keeping my E, as it'll be worthless soon (gotta love horrible M-B resale value), and is a great car, I'm just kind of afraid to own it after Warranty, so we'll see....

K-A
I just wondering - how many of your 355 posts don't contains criticism of w212 and praising of w211?
Writing the same damn thing in every topic won't make your opinion even slightly more valuable. In fact, it's pretty irritating

Seriously?

No offense, but I suspect these are most likely clueless people who bought their W212 because "it's a Mercedes". They have not paid attention to the design and when they see the "gap" they go "Oh my God, like oh my God!"




I don't see anything cheap about the W212 interior. The materials are more than appropriate for any luxury car in this class.

My family has a W211 E-Class and I find its interior to be outclassed by the new W212. I guess these are subjective opinions but most people, including reviewers, find the new E-Class cabin to be great: fitting and appropriate for a luxury car.

Mercedes interiors in general have never been flashy. They have always been conservative especially relying on dark-colored materials for decades.

Mercedes interiors are generally conservative. The W204 C-Class interior to me is the best C-Class interior ever besting that of the 190, W202 and especially the W203. I find nothing cheap about it. It might be boring and spartan in appearance but is also slightly elegant and has a premium / upscale feel and look to it.

If the interior was really so poor, then why do almost all owners give the interior high marks? Many reviews have stated that the interior is well-made and feels premium but it is simply boring and not flashy. There's a difference between cheap and being not flashy.


What is so horrible about placing last in a magazine review? I've never cared, as do many others, where a car finishes in a comparison test. As I understood it this was because the magazine felt that the E350 was "underpowered", which it isn't. If Mercedes felt that their customers felt that the E350 was underpowered they would do something about it. The E350 is a fast car. The only people who complain about its "slow" 0-60 performance are Internet kids on a car forum who still think that the faster car to 60 is the better car. People don't buy E350's for speed. They buy them for other qualities and to these people the E350 is fast enough. Someone who wants an E-Class that is really fast will certainly have the money to purchase an E550 or E63 AMG or have some aftermarket tuner tune the hell out of his E350 while dishonoring the warranty claim at the same time.

Car magazines have their biases too. BMW and Driver, excuse me, Car and Driver, places any BMW in first place before even driving it. A piece of dog shit can have the BMW badge on it and it will still place first when compared to real cars in BMW and..., excuse me again, Car and Driver. Most magazines these days seem to be blindly biased towards sport which means cars like the 5-Series, Jaguar XF, Infiniti M and maybe the Audi A6 will always finish in the top three. Big deal.

It annoys me when I read about how the Lexus GS or Mercedes E-Class "doesn't handle" like a 5-Series. Who ******* cares? If these companies noticed that their consumers wanted this type of handling in these cars then they'd certainly offer sport packages etc. to satisfy this need.

Who knows? You can choose to ignore 'em if you'd like.

Well, lot's of people buy many Mercedes models because they're "Mercedes"' ou

In fairness, I doubt many people complain about it, I was just stating I have seen some people who own it mention that they think it's a bit too large.

The interior isn't bad by any means. I just think numerous areas are cheapened, I can probably find an old post and name each individual area that I'm talking about. I understand it is mostly subjective, and don't doubt you finding it outclassing the W211. I'm just incredibly picky when it comes to interiors, and know myself, i.e for what my needs are from an interior, it doesn't match the material quality and refinement of the 211's interior. The popping smoke effect of bigger wood, and a more imposing design are good tricks to make one feel like the environment is more luxurious, but IMO, the details prove there was quite a bit of cost cutting.

People tend to get offended when people get detailed and point out negatives toward a car they like, I just like to talk cars, and usually have a basis on what I'm stating, i.e I'm not simply saying the 212's interior is "worse", I have detailed reasons as to why I feel that way. Either way, to each their own.

Out of curiosity, will anyone here say the W204's interior is more refined than the W203's?

Yep, I've to agree with Christian here. The materials of the W212 are definitely fantastic and outclasses the W211. Well, the design is a different story, personally I'm a fan of the W211 interior and not like the W212 to much. But the new E-Class is definitely a class above and can keep up with the S-Class…

edit: Personally, I have the feeling, that Mercedes did some improvements during the W212 life. Comparing the car when it was launched and now, there is much more attention to detail and quality is perfect now…

Same will pertain for the F10. The material quality will be above the E60 and near F01.

Well I see you do like the 204's more then, lol.

To each their own, and I'm not talking about flash. The W204's interior is a P.O.S in my eyes, to but it rude and crudely, although sure, it seem durable, rock solid, etc.. The materials are rubbery, hard, the headliner is grating, the dash attracts dust ("sticky" material), I've had about 1K miles of seat time in a W204, and literally always get negative comments when people get in the car ("this is really a "Mercedes"?). I'm talking about a sense of elegance/refinement/luxury here, and the W204's inside is sans it for an M-B IMO, even an entry level one.

I agree, I think the 350 is fine in power. However M-B has acknowledged it's underpowered, which is why they're upping the HP and motors in 2011.

Really? I guess we all see it differently. I can only find one material/area in the 212 where I think it's at a higher quality than the 211's, and it's the A/C unit, and also the steering wheel material, and the nicer Leather wrapping it.

Also, in comparison to the S-Class, I feel there is no comparison from the 212 to the 221. I've driven both back to back, and its night and day to me, the 221's gives a much more loving, and warm feeling, as well, the materials are at a different level IMO.

Here is a Copy & Paste of a post I've done where I've stated each area that I've perceive as "cheapened" from the W211, maybe some will agree, and maybe I'm just seeing it my way, either way it is the way I'm seeing it.....

::

-Center A/C Vents are a flimsy, cheap feeling substance (painted in silver, not real aluminum). The trim/weather stripping that goes alongside the interior of A-Piller>door frames>B-Pillar is a nice, classy cloth on the W211, it's a harder and rubbery feeling plastic on the W212 (I've always loved how M-B....used to use Cloth in that area where other cars used Plastic/Rubber).

-Lots of cheap hard, cheap-Industrial grade plastic surrounding the Radio Unit, and taking up areas in the door (buttons, etc).

-IMO the buttons on the Radio knobs aren't as strong and quality feeling as the W211's unit.

The Door arm rests are not nearly as soft and plush as the W211's very "pillowy" nice material, they're hard and rubbery in the 212. I notice more plastic in the inside of the car all in all. As well, the center console arm-rest is a kind of hard substance (imitation leather?)

The lower-center console area that touches the lower front seats bolsters (next to your hip) is all nice carpet on the 211, no use of plastic there, and where there is, it has a nice "stiching" effect, and a chrome piece in the middle (on the side of where your thighs/knees would be) to give a classier look. W212 has all plastic there, none of the mentioned attributes the 211 has (carpeting, chrome, etc.).

The A-Pillar interior material on my W211 is a wool-y/cotton-y looking material, very classy, the 212 has the same sandpaper-y, rougher material there and all along the headliner, as in the uber cheaply appointed C-Class.

Also, the whole bottom of the interior door panels is all a cheap grating and HARD plastic (where the compartments are), compared with the W211's much nicer and classier thin carpeting material. The 212's feels like some cheap econ car in that area, where the 211 made sure to go that extra mile and remind you, it is in fact a "Luxury Car".

The area where the Seat Controls and Window Buttons (on the doors) are, is very plain and cold, not surrounded in wood like the 211 (the wood is on top of it). Maybe it's just the look that's cheap, but it feels pretty hard around there. The door buttons and shapes are not nearly as elegant as the 211's, far more of a simple, mass-produced look of a vibe, but this I don't think has to do with materials as much as design, although I think the 211 does use better/nicer buttons all in all.

-The sunvisor feels flimsier, as the 211's feels nice and thick, with the nicer wrapping material to boot.

-The M-B Tex Seats use all M-B Tex, i.e it's a rubbery feel, the pre Face-Lift W211's, even with M-B Tex, use genuine Leather inserts (where you sit), which feels far more luxurious.

-Door lock pins are cheaper and uglier.

-Sunvisors have a cheaper material and are flimsier.

-Little things even, like the 211 has a nice thin and long aluminum piece going from one side of the front of the moonroof to the other, basically covering up where the headliner ends into the moonroof area, 212 doesn't have this refinement/attention to detail.

-Wood is big but looks just "stuck on", not flush with anything.

-Dash & Plastics are too close to (or same as?) The W204 C-Class, don't feel as "rich" as the 211's to me.

The A/C unit I think is more quality all around in the W212's than in the W211's, which I think is actually the weakest link in the 211's interior.

-Floormats seem cheaper and less "special", however maybe the car I noticed it on had non OEM mats? I don't even know if I remember it having that nice big Mercedes logo the 211's does.

-The little divider piece on the rear door windows in the W212 is a chunkier flat-black plastic piece, IMO not as nice or quality as the glossier "metal"-y seeming material in the W211.

-The 212 has very nice ambient lighting, but I do really like the 211's nice round "halo" ambient light (first ever Ambient Lighting in a Production Car if I'm not mistaken?), also the whole light unit and buttons, etc. on the roof on the 212 isn't designed as elegantly as the 211's, IMO.

-I don't know if people are aware of this, but due to all the new "Green" Regulations, cars are basically forced to use what are cheaper grade plastics these days, which IMO is something the W212 suffers from.

Fantastic post K-A! Well, with some points you could be quite right, but the overall feeling inside the W212 is definitely great I think…

…but as I already said, I have the feeling that MB did some rework inside the W212 and some materials feel much better then at the beginning. Like the leather at the steering wheel (last time I was at the dealer it felt near like the one of the W211) etc…