German Car Forum

This isn't a comparison test where both cars were driven and put to the regular testing that car magazines but simply an introduction to the new BMW 7-Series and the upcoming facelifted Mercedes S-Class.

The BMW 730d got high praises for the great fuel economy ratings that BMW claims it can achieve. Currently it is the most fuel efficient car in this class.

The BMW gets the nod at the end with the tester thinking that it is currently the car to beat in this class.

The Scans

Sounds more like a "I think we will like the 7-series and heres raising your expectations"-type of article.

Thanks for posting!

Pretty much.

They said the 7-Series has raised the bar and also comes with some nice features such as a permanent Internet connection etc. They also said the facelifted Mercedes S-Class will also be full of surprises so it will be very interesting battle once it comes out.

I don't care who wins as long as the Audi, BMW or Benz are placed above Lexus in comparison tests.

Interesting comments so far in the media:

• most are pleased with less controversial styling,
• many liked the styling a lot
• everybody likes the stance (proportions)
• most say the car looks much better IRL than in pics
• some still think the styling is a bit controversial (due heavily use of flame-surfacing)
• some doubt the car has enough WOW factor (vs the E65 & the rivals)
• some criticize the styling - being less distinctive inside & outside
• some think the car is the best in the class - incl the look
• some say the interior design doesn't look as classy as the one of S-class
• most are pleased cockpit is again more driver oriented
• many praised the ergonomics (incl the iDrive!!!)
• nobody criticized the new iDrive!!!
• everyone praises the cabin materials & fit+finish
• most are satisfied by the cabin space
• some are not pleased with trunk space

• all praised the performance of 750(L)i, and its V8 TT engine
• many were pleasantly surprised by very comfortable ride in "Comfort" mode, and very sporty ride in "Sport+" mode
• all are praising the agility & driving dynamism: due the 4WS Integral Active steering
• some say it's as easy to drive as 3er
• many liked the convenience of the new nanny systems like lane departure warning, lane change warning, nightview, sideview, traffic sign recognition etc.

So, the only criticism focus on not to original styling: interior too X5-like, front too much 5er / FL E65 like, rear too much Lexus LS like etc.
And many are not pleased with a bit too small trunk space (500L - while eg. S-class offeres 560L of cargo space).

So, no criticism of ergonomics - (one writer complained about the e-shifter he doesn't like at all). All like the new iDrive & the cockpit ergonomics.

All like the way the new 7er drive: much better comfort & much better driving dynamics than E65 - which was criticized not to be agile enough, and the ride was too harsh due run-flats.

IMO that's a very good sign. Mind the E65 was heavily criticized, and it sells very good despite that. Actually it was the best selling 7er ever. I'm sure the F01 / F02 will sell even better: except we face a complete economy collapse & a severe few-years-long global recession.

The Russian launch of F02 was a complete success: the jet-set was blown away by the new car. Many already placed the pre-orders.

Event was also heavily praised ... The Russian jet set like to be spoiled, and BMW gave them what they wanted. It was magical, some lady said.

Also: the M3 cabrio & X6 got a lot of attention at the even as well. And some thought 1er coupe is a perfect kid-mobil: for their spoiled kids.


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Also the German presentation to current or ex 7er owners is taking place ... and the reactions are more than positive. E65 owners were very satisfied with the new car. Even the ex-E38 owners - the ones who skipped the E65 buy, said they would come back to BMW. Many E38 didn't like the bloated appearence of E65, and the most deal-braker was the interior layout: not enough driver oriented. Many of them opted for A8 instead.

Yes i tried to make this point as a matter of my own opinion but some fans here thot i was being biased.

Anyway, overall the new 7er is quite impressive. It's a very good car. Good looking too (mostly). I still fear that it will date rather fast tho. Im already seeing a few real life fotos where it already looks too plain, or boring if u like from some angles.

i think i am going to wait to see one sit in one and drive one before i comment again on the s versus 7

i am shure the 7 will be better in all aspects as its almost 3 years newer a car .
also i hope the new s face lift is a decent facelift unlike the pathehtic facelift on the ml a and b classes

I think the interior of the new BMW 7-Series is very classy. In fact the Audi A8, the new 7er and MB S-Class have the classiest and most elegant interiors in this class in my honest opinion.

Why?

Simplistic Elegance

All of them have a very simple, yet elegant design that is pleasing to the eyes and doesn't intimidate like say you know what car I am going to mention.

I think the big difference between the S Class and BMW 7 Series interiors is that the BMW is designed to the utmost to be a drivers interior... The design is pure driver orientated. The S Class is more chauffeur designed...

^ Exactly potential.

I have to agree about most liked the less controversial design,i never like the E65 design and having one in the family stable didn't help me love it.

BMW never were the classiest ... Especially not more classy than MB. It would be quite strange. Classiness is more in MB domain ... BMW sets more on sports / driver oriented feeling anyway.

Will it age too fast? I don't think so.

Why? Due to flame surfacing.

BMW are ahead of the curve with FS (sharp creases, convex/concave lines etc) ... now other car makers are joining the party. Not even this generation of BMW cars look dated due the styling them - yes, we are more used to it, but that hardly means the staling is dated. The styling theme BMW uses on thir cars is very modern & contemporary. And so it will be in the future - when new "revolutionary" styling theme will be introduced.

IMO Benzes will look "dated" with the rectangular edges & edgy swollen surfaces etc - but that is done on purpose: to add some kind of "design patina" to the Benz: making them more classy & speciall.

BMW = organic postmodernism.
MBenz = mechanic modernism.

That's the main difference: BMW are more trendy, MB are trying to go a bit their own way.


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Btw, F01 / F02 design will get much more sense when F10 5er & 4dr GT will be introduced.


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But ... yes, I doubt the new 7er will polarize as much as E65 did. The publicity won't be as high as it was in E65. The new 8er will get much more attention when itroduced (and PAS before that) - since it will be the new flagship (while PAS will be another quirky cross-over just like X6 was).

I disagree. Mercedes are very trendy and when ever a new Benz hits the dealer is very fashionable right to drive one. Cars like the SL and SLK are way more trendy than the 6er and Z4.

^

I was talking about styling trendiness, not the perception of the brand or the particular product being trendy per se.



Of course some MB products are more trendy & fancy to own than some BMW ones.

But regarding the styling trends ... BMW are definitely more trendy & modern, while MB are still going modern but more restrained way. Eg. while BMW & most other car makers are offering soft organic lines & styling, MB bet on more mechanic / strict lines. Yet both feature sharp edges - which are THE trend in car design right now.

Ahaa, then in that sense you're right. But right now BMW are a bit schizo and apply different type of styling depending on car models. The new 7er is restrained in a MB sense rather than trendy like the facelifted 3er or X6.

Shizo? I don't think so.

F01 restrained? Not at all.

E65 styling - except the controversial elements i.e. clumsily styled clam shell boot lid & the pre-FL headlights & rear light strip - was the most restrained & conventional in the BMW model line. No utterly dynamic & modern Flame-surfacing styling theme - which is now heavily present on F01 / 02.
Eg. the side profile (incl. side panels styling) on E65 is completely conventional & hardly modern.

F01 is much more trendy & in line with other BMW vehicle in product portfolio than E65 ever was: since all the post e65 BMWs featured flame surfacing, while on E65 was completely absent. Only with facelift E65 got some FS theme: on the hood.

But you can't expect the (current) flagship: the 7-series - a full-size luxury sedan to be styled in such dynamic way as eg. X6 etc is. Different purposes, different styling.

But with the end of E65 & launch of F01 the BMW product portfolio will be much more coherent - styling & design wise than it was when E65 was still there. Put E65 beside all the other BMWs in product line, and then do the same with F01 - you'l notice the difference, and how much better F01 fits in, and how much more modern it looks - and much less "restrained".

Also: check the car IRL. It's not as "restrained" as you may think while seeing it in pics only. Put it beside LS, S-class, and A8 - and all the doubts about being restrained will diminish immidiately.


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I've seen both: E66 & F02 standing side by side.
Gosh, how dated E65 looks compared to F01!
I just couldn't belive my eyes!
The styling of F01 is far from being "restarained" - even when compared to other BMWs.

Can't see what else is going to jump at me when I see the car in real life. The doors are pretty bare, the shape is classic, the head lights are near identical to the ones on the E65. I fail to see what's trendy about the F01 other than the sexy tail lights. If the F01 is trendy then I don't know what adjective desribes the GLK.

^^ Oh come the f..k on guys. If there's one thing the F01 IS, it's RESTRAINED going by recent BMW design trends. And restrained doesnt necessarily mean a bad thing.

Restrained compared to WHAT?

X6? Z4? E65 7er? S-class?

To what?

Please, I'd loved to hear it.


PS: and plese define word "trendy".
GLK styling elements can hardly be described as trendy.
As I said: current trend are organic curved sharp lines. While MB -especially with GLK - is going the opposite way: mechanical, geometrical / rectangular, strict lines. The only common element is the sharpness of lines. So, something that goes in the other way the trend goes is hardly "trendy" ... it's more retro in modern way.

Recent contemporary BMW design!!! AND thats just in a nutshell

I share your sentiments.
I am an avid BMW fan, and I have to be honest with about my feeling on the F01.
Now I have to come to realization that pictures hardly do justice to most BMW so I will reserve my opinion until I see one it in person, but so far I would say it comes across as being restrained relative to the CS which is what I was expecting.
Just like the X6 or M3, the photo shots left me a bit cold until I saw the vehicles in person.
I think BMW needs to change the person(s) in charge of taking those press pictures.

Pretty much any vehicle looks better IRL than internet pictures.

It's not about whether it looks good or not because it is an attractive car, the issue here is the styling. In the end I think that styling is a bit reserved because BMW want to save the eye candy details for the CS. Pretty much like how they did with the X5 and X6.

^

And like MB did with E-class & CLS.

Same platform, different cars - different purpose, different clientèle, different styling - in MB case even the design is different.

The problem is you've seen the CS concept before 7er was launched ... Therefore F01 seems so "restrained" - due to many expected BMW will launch a CS carbon copy under 7er badge.

Again: E65 styling was much more restrained the the one of F01. Although due some particular design details (boot lid & pre-FL headlights) the E65 was declared "controversial".

E65: restrained but still controversial
F01: not controversial but much more exciting, dynamic & modern

Imo, you were expecting too much since we were all told we will see some of the CS elements and not the copy of the whole damn car.

Plus, CS or 8 series or whatever will be called, is a new flagship in the whole line-up and the best of CS must be reserved for it.

But if you ask me, that little they took from CS and applied to the new 7er did a terrific job, the car looks great and just a little bit nicer front bumper will make it even better than anything in it's class.

Even if it doesn't win in looks department, there are much more important things where, i think, currently 7er leads and i hope the upcoming full tests and comparisons will confirm that.

Guys,

you're forgetting F01 was designed BEFORE CS.

So, actually CS has F01's design element not vice versa - CS is a step further, an evolution of F01 styling / design.

Mind Karim A. Habib began to work on CS Concept (4dr GT) AFTER he had finished the F01 design process involvements - way after his proposal had been chosen for the production version F01.


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It was the same case with Z9 GT Concept, E65 & E63: Adrian van Hooydonk's proposal for the new 7er had been chosen as the winning design, and AFTER that he penned the Z9 (with some E65 elements) previewing the BMW GT coupe (first planned to be a new 8er, but later put on 5er platform & marketed as 6er), and based on this Concept the 6er was designed - by Adrian van Hooydonk, of course.

The history is repeating: K.A.H. had penned the F01, his proposal was chosen for production, and he got a task to pen a 4dr GT based on 7er - the CS Concept. And the production version will be heavily based on CS. So, the new 8er (4dr GT) is also a Karim A. Habib design!!!


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You're confused because the Concepts were shown before the production vehicles they based on were launched.

Design time line:

This generation: 7er ... Z9 ... 6er

New generation: 7er ... CS ... 8er

It's logical the newest design is more refined, more enhanced, more evolved etc.

That is the point:managing expectations. I think expectations were wrongly set when we saw the CS.
If we take the CS out of the equation, the F01/02 is a beauty with respect to the competition.