German Car Forum

How is that a flaw? Brakes get hot, they get even hotter when you pound on them just doing brake tests. Obviously they got hot enough to ignite the carbon dust around the pads.

Seriously i fail to see why this was considered a BS to u? we all know why the SLR doesn't handle that great!! it's coz of how MB wanted it to be not an edgy GT like 599GTB.In test of the SLR when it first came out all have said it they wished the car was a bit more McLaren and a bit less MB.And don't forget the SLR has luxury and comfort as a MB sedan which is amazing and much appreciated to MB's customers.lastly the 599GTB came three years after the SLR.

If we're talking about GTs, I'd take the DBS in a second. The 599's gearbox may be irritatingly clunky in a test, but when you do actually own it it becomes an eternal headache, especially when you're always stuck in traffic or live in an urban enclave. Long distance travel won't be much of an issue for the gearbox, but then again, I'd definitely prefer a manual over a flappy-paddle anyday.

Having seen the DBS on three different occasions I have to say that it's not all that. The car photographs very well but in real life it just looks like a DB9 with a sports kit, not as breath taking as in pictures. The 599GTB is a much more exciting and exclusive looking car, with special capabilities.

Tarek, I referred to your post as conjecture because, as no known fact is presented, that's what it is.

We don't know anything about how an SLR "may" have handled had McLaren been let off the leash on the SLR. We don't even know what it may have looked like. We know nothing. Anything that is said regarding how an "SLR would've handled had..." is just pure speculation. What we do know is that it handles well. We know it's fast. But then so is an Enzo, Carrera GT, 599 etc. All supercars or GTs in their own right.

We know that McLaren, under the guidance of the pre-eminent Gordan Murray, have the technological wherewithal to produce pinnacle cars. Cars that, in their day, stand head and shoulders above the competition. Witness the McLaren F1 - quite possibly the greatest supercar of all time. Another thing that we know is that the SLR went through a protracted and troubled gestation fraught with internal conflict between Mercedes-Benz and McLaren engineers. The results are starkly apparent and more than a little ironic.

The McLaren SLR will never be called the greatest supercar nor the greatest GT of all time - it has never earned a five star rating from any reputable journalist or automotive publication. It has received negative press in the areas of handling, brakes, steering feel, transmission co-operation and interaction and overall driver enjoyment. Don't take my word for it but do go and read some of the articles out on the web that are available. I'm not making this up - it's been researched and so is not conjecture or speculation.

We don't know what kind of car the Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren could've been, instead, we do know what kind of car it is. And sadly, it's not a great supercar (the world has Enzos and CGTs for that) and it's not a great GT either. And therein perhaps lies the SLR's single greatest undoing: it's not the snatchy, grabby sensotronic brakes or the inert, uninspiring driving experience. It's not the tight cabin with cheap plastics or the olde-skool 5 speed torque convertor automatic transmission. No, in my opinion, the SLR fails because it is the most expensive identity crisis of the automotive world - it's neither here nor there...

In contrast, the 599 GTB, is such a spectacularly good GT, that it happens to cut it as an out and out supercar in spite of its original design brief.

Well Martin while i agree with half what u said i have to say that o can't really criticize the SLR for what it is,it is a typical MB style GT.If that car had a Porsche or Ferrari badge then i'd agree with all what u said but this is a Mercedes-Benz which means comfort,safety and hammering power is priority one.So the car's extra weight is due to all the comfort and safety features it has heck it even had knee bags when no other MB sedan or coupe had that option while back which explains MB's philosophy with that car.After all that the still introduced some very advanced body materials and structures which i'm sure u already aware of.

SLR is not a supercar nor the best GT out there in a purist opinion but guys like JC and tiff niddle went nutts over it when they drove it for the first time and Tiff even said it's in a league of it's own calling it a hyper GT.

MB never meant to make 599GTB like GT but a super fast GT with MB's DNA.

Haha, so your excuse for it sucking is that it is a Mercedes? I can buy that.

But isn't that what the SL and CL are for? They could have just jacked up the power on those cars and called it quits. With the SLR, they could have made something a la Enzo and CGT very comfortably. Heck, forget the whole persona that MB supposedly have to follow. Remember the CLK-GTR? I'd have to say that car is more memorable to me than the SLR will ever be, even though it was extremely limited.

Back on topic, I'd take the DBS in a heartbeat. While I used to hate the GTB, after seeing it in real life, it is a looker. But even if the DBS is a riced out DB9, it looks slightly better than the DB9 which is my books is good enough to call it one of the best looking cars in the world.

In this picture, there's no comparison between the 2 imo.

First it doesn't suck,it's a MB and every maker does it's cars the way it should be.Do u consider the increased comfort approach of BMW sucking?.Plus the SLR lack of razor handling is due to luxury and safety features on board features that aren't available even in todays supercars and GTs

The CLK-GTR is a totally different story Warot,it was a limited produced cars aimed just for the track while the SLR is a hyper GT for the trendy super rich

In terms of luxury, I don't feel that the SLR is miles ahead of Ferrari or Lamborghini or Porsche. And as far as safety features, airbags and what not aren't THAT heavy.

If you told me that Benz was going to build a supercar with McLaren (they created the Mclaren F1 for crying out loud), I fully expected something along the lines of CLK_GTR but much more civilized. While the CLK GTR was totally race oriented, MB could have easily made the SLR closer to that than an SL. If building the SLR was fully for making profit, then it shows. If it was to make a super-duper sports car (think MB+McL=CLKGTR+MCLF1), then it job was botched. The fact that the SL BS is being praised for it's sportiness (I may be wrong, haven't really been following car stuff lately) then it just shows that the SLR wasn't as successful as it should be.

That's just my opinion, that's all

[quote=warot;322382]While the CLK GTR was totally race oriented, MB could have easily made the SLR closer to that than an SL. If building the SLR was fully for making profit, then it shows. If it was to make a super-duper sports car (think MB+McL=CLKGTR+MCLF1), then it job was botched.[quote]

Well u said it,the SLR was never meant to be a track oriented car,it was designed to have a very impact looks with hammering performance along with MB traditional comfort and safety which matters most to MB traditional customers.

And all this explains the conflict that flicked between MB and McLaren about this car,GM wanted this car to be something like the F1 while MB wanted it to be what it turned out to be and that was my point.You can't can't criticize something for being what it has been engineered to be

[quote=Tarek;322385][quote=warot;322382]While the CLK GTR was totally race oriented, MB could have easily made the SLR closer to that than an SL. If building the SLR was fully for making profit, then it shows. If it was to make a super-duper sports car (think MB+McL=CLKGTR+MCLF1), then it job was botched.When I said not a track oriented car, I was think on the level of the CLKGTR, but still be a supercar like a 599 for exemple. That's all

First that was a joke...

No, I don't mind BMWs being more comfortable if it still handles well, like how M3 still handles better than C63 while being more comfortable - thanks for letting me sneak that in .

And I frankly don't know what is the luxury in SLR that is absent in F599 or even a GT2. There are enough examples out there that show both are not exclusive as it used to be.

Well the 599GTB cam three years after the SLR,so better handling was expected

Maybe the successor SLC would match ur expectations

I know it was a joke and let me sneak something else too,in EVERY test of M3 against the C63 everyone kept saying that the C63 is more fun to drive,more thrill,more adrenaline and lastly better steering feel...what happend to BMW's "sheer driving pleasure" or "ultimate driving machine" slogans?

Great now it's a MB vs BMW thread

Haha, yeah. Don't you love it

BTW, that C63 has better steering feel is a myth. Most road tests in which both cars were tested at the same time have said M3 has better steering:

http://www.germancarforum.com/interna...-f-vs-c63.html

http://www.germancarforum.com/internal-combustion/23913-topgear-magazine-f-vs-e92-m3-vs-c63-vs-rs4.html

2008 BMW M3 vs. 2008 Lexus IS F vs. 2008 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG - Power and Handling - Comparison - Motor Trend

http://www.germancarforum.com/internal-combustion/24109-road-track-f-vs-rs4-vs-m3-vs-c63.html


The only exception I know is this one:
http://www.germancarforum.com/interna...z-c63-amg.html

Every test??? now you exaggerate. I read several test saying the M3 beats the C63 in those areas.
When you say EVERY test, your just dreaming or havent read many tests at all. Tarek, stop taking the drugs


Tests, advantage M3:

http://www.germancarforum.com/interna...-f-vs-c63.html

http://www.germancarforum.com/interna...s-c63-amg.html

http://www.germancarforum.com/interna...63-vs-rs4.html

http://www.germancarforum.com/interna...s-c63-amg.html

http://www.germancarforum.com/interna...-w204-c63.html

http://www.germancarforum.com/interna...s-c63-amg.html

http://www.germancarforum.com/interna...es-c63amg.html

http://www.germancarforum.com/interna...g-vs-vx8r.html

2008 BMW M3 - Car And Driver

Yawn!! This is too much
PS Is it LSD or Weed you taking? I would like to try it, seem like fun

^ Lol @ Andreas

Guys but seriously every test they said that about the M3 being less fun and inert compared to the C63 plus come on Sunny i'm sure u remember the first tests when they said C63 had better steering feel and lastly the infamous comment about the M3 being inert like a normal 3er till u rev it above 5000 rpm then comes the action which isn't really a fun thing to do inside the city.

WE really drifted away from the topic of the thread..

Yes, the initial tests on the M3 was harsh, just becuase they compared to the previous M3. But after spending more time with the M3 , people appreicate the car more. They realized they were wrong

Anyhow, what happen to Ferrari and Aston? We forgot at all about them
We have had many M3 vs C63 debates before so I say we pay attention to the real topic for once

BTW Andreas i didn't mean tests that favored the C63 but tests that just said what i mentioned earlier