German Car Forum

For the past few years, the German automakers have been in a civil war against one another. This is a civil war that is all about power – horsepower that is. The big three automakers, Audi, Mercedes, and BMW have been pumping out a continuous line of monstrous sedans and coupes across the line. But the main focus where this war is most violent is between the super sedans. Audi has a 500hp version of its A6 sedan called the RS6, and then there is the Mercedes AMG E63, and finally, the king of the super sedans, the BMW M5. Sadly however, the RS6 is no longer in the game since it is out of production at this time and won’t return for at least another year. However, the competition is still fierce between BMW and Mercedes.
Last year, BMW raised the bar yet again with its all-new M5. Previous M5s were nothing short of driving perfection and the absolute best sport sedans in the world – they were also the fastest as well. However since the beginning of this war of the German automakers, the M5’s 400hp was no longer enough. Mercedes’ E55 was pushing out 450hp with the latest E class body; then Audi blew AMG away with the stunning 500hp RS6. BMW wasn’t going to be left at the bottom of the scale, so while the M5 retired for a short time, BMW spent quite a while making sure their new M5 would be nothing short of perfection. With an all-new 507hp V10 this engine is a masterpiece of BMW engineering. The new M5 is a technological showcase as well. Its new SMG gearbox has seven gears, and up to eleven different settings that allow the driver to choose how fast he wants the car to change gears. This transmission is a clutch-less manual, with F1-style paddles on the back of the steering wheel to shift, and in addition it does also offer full-automatic mode. The SMG in the M5 is spot-on, and works very well in this car, unlike the way it performed in the older M3 and Z4. However, there is also a traditional six-speed manual available. In addition to the M5’s long list of techno-gadgets and settings, you can also select how much power the engine produces as well.
Mercedes responded promptly this year with a revised version of its E55, now named the E63. The change in numbers is prompted by an increase from the former 5.5L V8 up to a 6.3L V8 that now produces 506hp, and 464lb-ft of torque, which is just slightly more than the M5. The E63 now also has a seven-speed gearbox called 7G-tronic that, like the M5, has F1 style paddles on the back of the wheel that allows the driver to change gear. Unlike the M5 however, this gearbox is a proper automatic, and a complete manual transmission is not available because the E63’s torque would ruin any manual gearbox that Mercedes can make.
Performance wise on paper these cars are almost identical. They both have 0-60 times in under 4.5 seconds and have a limited top speed of 155 mph; and even so, unrestricted both will reach the exciting side of 200 mph. Both of these cars will also reach into the exciting depths of your bank account as well, both start at just over $81,000, and after options, you’ll be pushing nearly six figures for the MSRP. So there you have it, both of these cars are almost identical in just about every way. But how do they drive? I’ve luckily had a chance to drive both of these super sedans, and on the face of it, both of them are just fantastic. Behind the wheel of one of these, it’s easy to forget that you’re actually driving a comfortable four-door sedan because they’re just so fast.
The great thing about both of these cars is that once your finished with fooling around and smoking tires, they settle down, and become comfortable, great looking sedans that you can drive everyday, and hardly anyone will notice. The E63 is conservatively styled, and only the keen automotive enthusiast will regonize your driving something very special. The M5 on the other hand is a bit more aggressive. The base of the normal 5 series is a dramatic departure from the previous model and its not as conservative as before. Like Mercedes, the BMW styling changes are minimal, but it still is far more noticible on the highway with its large, deep-dish alloy wheels, and aggressive front fascia. It’s not as elegant as the Mercedes but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
The E63 on the road is very well planted; you can immediately tell that this car was made for the autobahn. Its V8 has a great exhaust note, and its torque surge is addicting under acceleration. The torque that this engine produces is just mind boggling, and it thrusts you into your seat as the traction control light flashes helplessly to try to keep the tires in check. The great thing about the E63 is that this is a very forgiving car. Mercedes has packed it full of electronics and traction control systems to keep you from loosing control. However, these are almost impossible to completely turn off, and for the experienced driver, they really take away from the driving experience. However, the most disappointing part about the E63 is that the steering is much like that of other E-classes; it’s rather numb and lacks feel. It’s heavier than in other models, and it handles well, but the entire time you still somehow feel distant from the car. Added with all the electronic gadgets that work with this vehicle (which is well over 100 different systems and computers) you don’t feel like you’re the one driving this car anymore.
In comparison, the BMW M5 is a bit more brutal in its driving experience; that is of course once you get around the iDrive system, and its driving aids as well. Like the Mercedes, this BMW is packed with just as many electronics and traction control systems to keep this car in check. This car is easily one of the most frustrating vehicles to figure out. Yes, it is a technological showcase, but the automated voice from the navigation system doesn’t shut up, and it always talks over your favorite radio station, which you can’t find anyway because its too complicated, the climate control systems are a nightmare to work properly, and you even have to select how much power you want the engine to produce. This takes forever to adjust all these settings, because they are far too difficult and distracting to do while your driving. Of course, once you get used to it and get your settings all dialed in, you can forget them and don’t have to bother with them again, but its still a hassle regardless. The good thing however is there is a way you can get around all this mess if your in a hurry. Located on the steering wheel is a button that just says “M”. Push this, and the engine produces its maximum amount of power, the traction control is switched off, the suspension goes into attack mode, and the gearbox is switched over to manual. That also activates the unique heads-up display that gives you a color-coded rev-counter and speedometer. The engine barks out a fantastic exhaust note, and once I floored it, this car violated me – personally. The seats squeezed my sides in, and it took me by surprise because this wasn’t a gentle squeeze. The first corner I took, the side bolsters push into your sides to keep you from sliding around, and I’ll tell you what, it gives you one heck of a driving experience. This car is hands down one of the most exhilarating cars I’ve ever driven, and under full throttle, it just makes your heart stop, I couldn’t believe how fast it was. This car put a huge smile on my face in a way that the E63 just doesn’t. That doesn’t mean the E63 is a bad car, but it feels more like an executive car, and you just want to cruise in. The M5 on the other hand is just bonkers, and it’s mad; it wants you to trash it and drive it like your hair is on fire.
Overall, both of these are great cars. But once you get around the complications of the BMW’s iDrive system, it delivers a driving experience that the E63 will never do, and for that reason, I’ll take the M5 every time.

Both have their good and bad. I prefer the M5 over E63. M5 is more my kind of car but whatever you choose both does their work very good.

both great looking, great driving cars that will bring a smile to the owner and all those who see it flash past them on the road

Quite simply putted:M5´s sound and power will make your heart pump faster and E63 will rearange your internal organs with it´s huge torque .IMO,M5 is far more better sport car then E63 !

Tried them both. Liked them both. Bought the E63. Why? Because I have to live with the thing for 3 years.

Having to think to press the "M" button ahead of time to get my money's worth of power - ahhh.... No.

+ The SMG needs lots of work outside a racetrack. It just plain sucks.

The seat of pants test gave it to the E63, the M5's V10 just didn't have the low end kick of the new AMG engine. Handling wise they are both not a Porsche (way too heavy) but, on public roads the AMG-moded suspension on the E63 is monster tight and just right.

Too many excuses have to be made about the M5 to declare it the winner here.

Welcome to the forums. Interesting first post.

BTW, the SMG does have a clutch-just not one you have to push in.

First of all-even with a tightened chassis, it isnt going to match the M5 in terms of handling. The rigidity of the body must be honed perfectly to the chassis set up-which isnt the case in the e63. Check automobile's july issue for that. Secondly, despite all of mercedes suspension work, it still cant beat the m5 around a track, in fact the S6 has blown it away as well. What excuses do you have? other than straight line acceleration? You dont have to press a button to go fast....

Everyone's opinion counts and that's OK. I respect that.

But like I said. Drove them both and just couldn't imagine driving the M5 for 3 years on public roads. I expect a lot out of a $95k 4-door sedan not compromises and excuses (my favorite: the M is great on a track).

If you want a real sports car get a Porsche.

My advice for BMW in this category: up the torque (hard without more displacement or a turbo but that's ok), deliver a more drivable transmission (even the upcoming manual is a good step forward), and get rid of that ridiculous M button. The accelerator should be the "M" button (that's where the E63 has it).

Great forum!

M are cars with low displacement and torque at low speeds arent what BMW are looking for and apparently not the buyers either. So I doubt BMW will listen to your advice.

I know people who tried them both too and picked the M5 becuase they liked it better. Its two different cars for different people and just arguing which is the best is utterless pointless.
You have your opinion and not everyone think like you. I hope thats okey with you. Cheers mate!

From what I gather you want BMW to build an AMG... that will not happen. Mercedes is already doing that.

wow, u BMW fanboys are really pouncing on the man. lol, take it easy guys, its just cars and his choice. He bought wat was more comfortable for him.

btw, dat was certainly an interesting first post, welcome to the forums, hope to see more of you and your E63

Welcome eclectic.. enjoy your stay..please post pics of your awesomme ride..


PS
as far as M5 vs E63 goes-- i can only comment the looks as i have not driven any of these 2 cars.. and in looks its dead close.. some days the AMG is hotter somedays the M..
i really cant decide..
But by reading eclectic´s and others review of the hard edged M5.. i also feel that my choice would be the E63.. but im not sure..
so does anyone have a E63 and M5 for me to borrow over a weekend??

No slamming of opinions, guys.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

What is this, why is everyone jumping up and down like a frog on an electric fence. We are just expressing our opinions.

I think everyone agrees that the M5 is a superior track machine......better handling at the limit, and better feedback (superior steering/braking feel, and more balanced).

However, I think everyone also agrees that the E63 is the superior road car. With the Direct Control upgrades in the facelifted W211 and further AMG tuning, it handles well beyond what any person requires on the street.

Now, the M5 can be used as a road car/daily driver as well, but you accept certain compromises (especially the SMGIII transmission in stop and go traffic and maybe a rougher ride). But some people WANT and ACCEPT that type of driving characteristic ALL THE TIME, which is why some people choose the M5. Mostly, though, I think a lot boils down to image and brand preference.

Just like the E63 can be taken to the track, although you accept another set of compromises (like transmission not shifting as quickly in M mode and inferior handling at the limtis).

Personally, I think both cars are not ideal as track toys. They are both too big and heavy, but occasional track duty would be fun.

So, it's all about what you value more, and what compromises you want to make. I'm of the camp that think most people who buy these mid size sedans spend 95-99% of the time on the road, and only a small percentage of the time on the track (if at all). Logically, the advantage of the M5 over the E63 as a performance car becomes negligible on the street, while the advantage of the E63 over the M5 as a road car can be exploited almost all the time for most people.

I cant see that either of these two have any advantages on the road. You can do the same thing with a E63 like you can with a M5 and vice versa. Only differences I see is that one is a more comfortable ride while the other offer better feel and we dont need a track to notice any differences with these two.
I get a feeling many are a little to obsessed with talking about the track everytime we discuss these two. Both are roadcars and not racingcars.

^you said it right there..they are road cars not track cars..
and thats exactly why the E63 suddently becomes a damn good alternative..
maybe even a better one..

its pointless to argue which one is the best when it comes down to personal preferences. All people have different ways to see things, its in the eye of the beholder. The word "best" is so oldfashioned, its just a word fans love to use.

M5's the bar in this segment for now, and rightfully so. It's superior handling, interior layout, and far more attractive design seals imo of course!

What are the advantages of the E63 over the M5 on everday roads?
1) More comfortable ride and luxurious interior.
2) Smooth shifting transmission for everday stop and go driving (like rush hour traffic).
3) Significantly higher torque in the low rpm range......don't underestimate this in city driving......people who buy these cars want speed (or else they would have bought a E350 or 525i). Instantaneous torque means instantaneous acceleration without the need for downshifting a few gears and reving the engine high like the M5......this makes passing cars much more easier on the road. And don't tell me this isn't the BMW way.......the 335i is the perfect example of how much BMW fans LOVE torque, once they finally have a car which gets a lot of torque in the low rpm range. Now they praise and praise about how the 335i is such a better road car than the E46 M3.

The M5 drives and feels best at high rpm and taking fast corners on the limit. You can't do either of these things regularly on the streets unless you drive like a maniac. That's why the virtues of the M5 (and all the handling advantage BMW and their fans claim) are best taken advantage of on the track.

This is almost exactly the arguments people have with the E46 M3 and W203 C55, a debate I'm very familiar with.

Number 1:
Just becuase E63 has better comfort doesnt mean the M5 has bad comfort and that you cant live with it. We arent talking about Porsche, Impreza or a RS4 level. The comfort in M5 isnt much worse than a BMW 545i with the right setting. And the chairs offer just as good comfort as E63.
More luxurious interior, thats individuell taste too. So no 1 is personal what you prefer.

Number 2:
I agree with.

Number 3:
if you drive in the cities much, I agree. If city driving is important to you then pick another car, whats the point of having a fast car in the city. On the freeway or the country road I disagree.
Personally I tried to put the gaspedal on the floor in 7th gear driving only 50km/h, pulling is no problem, sure it aint like a E63 but its much better than many other cars on the road. Still if you aint satisfied, change gear for gods sake, how hard can it be.
Regarding 335i vs M3 E46. M3 isnt being built anymore so compare it to the new M3 V8 instead. Oh and the 335i is a much better than many old performance cars today. 335i chocked many people, including MB fans

I've got to say that I agree with Andreas here. Indeed the M5 has a significant amount of less torque than the E63, but in no way should it be described as 'weak'. Having not driven an M5, but having much experience with a Honda S2000 (the car gets picked on for having no torque), I easily believe the M5 has plently of usable road torque. Certainly enough to satisy most everyone

Number 1: I'm not saying that the ride in the M5 is unbearable. I'm just saying that the E63's suspension is slightly more forgiving than the M5, which translates into a better ride in city roads. But in the end, you agree with me that the E63 has better comfort. If you want to set the M5's suspension to a more comfortable setting, then you lose the razor sharp handling......you can't have everything.

Number 2: I'm glad you agree with me......

Number 3: I'm also glad you agree with me about city driving. But you're incorrect about not being able to enjoy a fast car in the city. Even though you have speed limits, you can still enjoy the ACCELERATION that a fast car can offer. Highway on ramps (ideally curvy ones), the occcasional blast from standing stop at a red light, passing people on the freeway, etc, etc. That's what the majority of fast car owners enjoy on the streets. So, there ARE ways to enjoy brisk acceleration, even below the speed limit or just above the speed limit. But where the M5 is superior in acceleration over the E63/E55 is at speeds well above the speed limits. And unless you take highway onramps at the absolute limit with understeer/oversteer about to happen, you can't enjoy that handling advantage of the M5 either in everday driving. Track time, baby,.....track time is where the M5 will shine over the E63 in almost everyway.

It's not only me that's comparing the 335i to the E46 M3.......just read E90Post (I know you do)........there is constant debate/discussion about how the 335i's low end torque makes it such a good road car for everday use and performance. Even the car mags make the inevitable comparison. The 335i's performance is very close to the E46 M3, except that its power delivery is much easier to use because you don't have to rev to the heavens........sounds just like most AMG cars. And yes, I AM very impressed with the 335i.....this is no secret.

Dont' get me wrong, I'm not saying the torque on the M5 is weak.......just a whole lot less than the E63, which means the advantage goes to the E63 for most city situations. On a track, it is very different.....you want to maintain high rpm all the time, so the M5 is always in its powerzone. Try maintaining high rpm regulalry in city driving, and I guarantee you'll tire of the noise and harshness.

If you driven many AMG and M's I can understand that someone finds the torque in M5 weak. You get spoiled easily. But remember everything is relative and what you compare it to.
M and RS always been inferior compared to AMG's in the torque department. But it doesnt mean M's and RS are useless "pullers". I get a weird feeling that Europeans doesnt mind changing gear if it doesnt get fast enough and for americans its the opposite j/k.

Like I said, pulling in 7th gear in low speeds is no problem but if you compare it to a AMG of course you will find it bad. When you think of it, not many cars offer as much torque as a Benz.
I believe a M5 has more torque than a 525i but I dont hear people complaining on a 525i?