German Car Forum

The result isn't a surprise!! But Lexus wins over BMW!!!

That poor old BMW.

But still a great car, in my opinion!

WoW a japanese car only 5 points away from the S-class in a german carmag. Im in shock

As always the S loses out on price...Damn the 7er better majorly up it's game next generation.

in german Autozeitung there is a test between these
Audi A8 4.2 FSI quattro / Jaguar XJ R / Lexus LS 460 / Mercedes 450

Audi won and S450 second place and both scored the same in price. Both A8 and S450 equally fast in acceleration.

So not "Always"

I am hoping F01/02 it won't just play catch up but will distant itself significantly for the next 5 years.
And that includes Styling, Performance and Quality.
The 5er and the 7er needs to have the same command as the 3er in their segments.

You beat me too it again Ree!

I had it all scanned and ready to post!


Well here are the finer details...

RANKINGS

1st Place: Mercedes S-Class 498/650
A true luxury limousine unbeatable in comfort and with excellent engine refinement. Aside from the expensive price, no major weaknesses.

2nd Place: Lexus LS460 493/650
The LS is spacious, well equipped and laden with technology. Comfort, handling and the interior are a bit dissapointing.

3rd Place: BMW 750i 477/650
The 7er shines in the dynamic department (handling). Weaknesses include safety features and ergonomics.


PERFORMANCE 0-100 km/h
Mercedes: 5.7 seconds
Lexus: 6.5 seconds
BMW: 6.1 seconds

Don't forget the usual complaints about the Lexus's poor load capacity (400 kg only).

AutoBild also claims Kia Cee'd is almost as good as VW Golf!

Is German supremacy gone?

I'm so sorry cawimmer!!

The next time, you will be first...

Relax, they were simply impressed with the Kia Cee'd.

Quite good result for a 5.5 year old car.

Loosing points in "traditional" categories: iDrive, warranty & ride comfort.
Also having less latest driver assistance tech & less standard equipment - costing 7er some major points.
Still having very good handling, and best steering in the segment.

BMW know E65/6 is a fatty, and is addressing that issue. Especially F01 will be much more agile & dynamic & sporty. While F02 will also provide extrordinary comfort, and a bit less sportiness.

Wow a Toyota scores 16 point more than the 7er in a German car mag.

It's cool. Now all you need to do is translate the whole thing and save me from doing all the hard work.

The LS is a well built car w/ the most reliable technology out there, not mention it's pretty competitive. I see them quite infrequently and I must say it's one of the best designs to come out of Japan for qutie sometime, the interior is a nice place to be as well. I'd for sure take one over just about every last one of it's competitors w/ the exception of the S8, the W221 surely isn't anything to write home about other than for it's ride, which I understand the LS's is far superior.

I dont mind since I prefer A8 over 7er, so sorry Luw, nice try but it wont work this time

FANBOY MODE ON

"But that's a gussied up Volkswagen!"

FANBOY MODE OFF

Don't you mean A8L? It's the most plush!

From all accounts so far, the Mercedes ride quality has been said to be absolutely superb, the best in the class along with the Lexus. and while the Lexus may match the Mercedes ride, it does so by being soggy dynamically, whereas the Mercedes still has impressive dynamics.

I've never ever ever read of the Audi A8 having the most plush ride quality...in fact quite the opposite.

I was talking about the S8 and the A8L ok?

Ok...makes sense...silly me.

Exactly! This is what I keep trying to tell Lexus folks on other boards. The Mercedes and Lexus both have the smooth ride, but the Mercedes does it with better handling and control which is why it has beaten Lexus in every comparo I've seen from any magazine around the world. I don't get why that is so hard for Lexus fans to grasp. The Mercedes beats Lexus at its own "soft ride" game.

M

Far superior? That is nonsense. I've driven both and their ride is so similar to the point of being nearly identical until you ask the LS to stop or corner. The LS loses the plot and the S doesn't. Mercedes simply beats Lexus at their own game while upping their own.

M

Well said.

From Autobild and AMS review, I have noticed two things.

1) The Lexus ride and seat comfort is superior to the Mercedes', but once the road conditions turn rough for example, the Mercedes still shines while the Lexus suspension becomes "nervous and uncomfortable". Both Autobild and AMS mentioned this.

2) The Lexus LS handling improved bigtime over the LS430, but it's still no match for the Mercedes S-Class, which offers the same level of comfort but with better handling.

Add to that that the Lexus has an embarassing load capacity of 400 kg and the S-Class easily shines as the more balanced car.

What can I say, I'm not a Lexus fan but I do like the new LS and I realize it isn't so much of a driver's car like the S-Class. In a way, these two cars shouldn't even be compared against each other because of this difference in philosophy.