German Car Forum

Centurion · 10-24-2007, 08:49 AM

The Gold Star is only one of many awards. During the coming 2-4 months Hamilton will be very busy accepting awards and attending various shows and ceremonies.

NarutoRamen · 10-24-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450SEL6.9

According to some reports, he allegedly had big enough balls to tell his boss to "f**ken swivel", but the team now claims there was no swearing, but you get the point.

I never liked Hamilton because I don't think he is genuine. We were told from day one by the PR people and former British F1 champs that he is a really, really nice guy.

Yeah I know about the confrontation with Ron. But the thing is internal disputes happen. There is a difference between saying something internally and coming out and saying something to reporters.

Centurion · 10-24-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NarutoRamen

Yeah I know about the confrontation with Ron. But the thing is internal disputes happen. There is a difference between saying something internally and coming out and saying something to reporters.

Exactly. Internal disputes do occur and one might say something "offensive" as a reaction but don't really mean it. What Hamilton said in Hungary is no big deal really and there is no need to blow it out of proportions. It's unfortunate that it came out.

Ron most likely didn't take it personal and I doubt that it has affected their friendship at all.

NarutoRamen · 10-24-2007, 05:50 PM

^^Screw friendship...Hamilton is Ron's investment.

Centurion · 10-24-2007, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NarutoRamen

^^Screw friendship...Hamilton is Ron's investment.

True but still they toured the world side by side this entire year and have been in touch the latest 9 years so they are more than just colleagues. Just look at the way Ron cheered for Hamilton earlier this season, he was proud as a dad whenever Hamilton took pole during qualification or won a race.

Monster · 10-24-2007, 08:32 PM

From McLaren rubbish 'switched off' reports - Planet-F1 News - from planet-f1.com

Quote:

McLaren have denied that Lewis Hamilton switched off his car during Sunday's Brazilian GP or that he even told anyone that he did.

According to French-language daily newspaper La Presse, Hamilton didn't suffer a gearbox problem during the title-decider, but rather he turned off his car accidentally.

The newspaper even had quotes from the 22-year-old to back up their claim.

"My finger slipped on the steering wheel and I accidentally pressed the button used for the starting sequence," Hamilton allegedly said.

"The car went into neutral and I had to reinitialise the system, that is, reload the gearbox management program."

However, Autosport reports that a source close Hamilton has denied that the British rookie even spoke to the Canadian newspaper, never mind committed the error.

McLaren have also rubbished the report, saying the failure - that cost Hamilton the World title - was not down to an error from Hamilton.

"We can confirm that the temporary gear shifting problem Lewis suffered on lap eight of the Brazilian Grand Prix was due to a default in the gearbox that selected neutral for a period of time," a McLaren spokesperson told the British publication.

"It was not as a result of Lewis pressing an incorrect button on his steering wheel."

The team's CEO Martin Whitmarsh also denied that it was driver error.

"It was a gearbox problem, and it went into forced-neutral and changing down seemed to rectify it - it might be mechanical, but we doubt it," he said.

"If it was something mechanical, they usually don't fix themselves. It could be electronics software - but there's no evidence in the analysis to support that. Could be a sensor - but again, there's no evidence in the data recordings.

"So it would appear that the barrels that change gear went out of control - and out of control of the driver - and that's probably hydraulic.

"That could be either a very small Moog servo control valves that were interfered with by a tiny piece of debris or they are sensitive to magnetic interference - something generated a magnetic field which caused the valve to misbehave."

I got a feeling Mclaren is trying to cover up Lewis's mistake, what kind of bullsh*t "resoning" is this...... "a tiny piece of debris interfered with the control valve" , or SOMETHING that generates a magnetic field that stuffs up the valve....right...........

Centurion · 10-24-2007, 09:05 PM

^^
F1 teams love cover-ups but in this case what really happened is irrelevant since the season is over and the title is lost.

Monster · 10-24-2007, 09:17 PM

True, I guess Mclaren just want to protect Lewis. The team really need a better PR manager and the better hope Matt Bishop can handle it all.

450SEL6.9 · 10-24-2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

True, I guess Mclaren just want to protect Lewis. The team really need a better PR manager and the better hope Matt Bishop can handle it all.

If it was driver error, and I don't buy the "explanations, then Lewis will be associated with the word "choker" for a while. They understandably want to avoid that.

If he lost a 17 point lead because he beached it in China and then slid out of the points because of driver error, how can one not call him a choker? So far only the Spanish press has really pounced on the choke job.

NarutoRamen · 10-25-2007, 01:03 AM

It was driver error...he said it himself. No amount of sugarcoating from McCover-up squad is going to change that.

450SEL6.9 · 10-25-2007, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

or SOMETHING that generates a magnetic field that stuffs up the valve....right...........

I think there is video to back up that claim!

CQC

Scroll down to second video link: Vídeo: Intentamos gafar a Hamilton durante la carrera. Click on clip and see what happens at 2:31 into clip!

Bartek Sikorski · 10-27-2007, 09:26 AM

Mosley unconvinced by McLaren appeal

Max Mosley has questioned McLaren's decision to appeal against the decision not to punish Williams and BMW after the Brazilian Grand Prix, suggesting there is little chance Kimi Raikkonen's title will be taken away from him now.
With November 15th having been set aside to hear McLaren's appeal regarding the fact that BMW and Williams were not penalised for using fuel that was outside the temperature regulations, Mosley claims the team didn't necessarily have the right to appeal as it isn't the result they are protesting.
Indeed, the FIA President is steadfast in believing Raikkonen is the 2007 champion and that that an appeal against the results at Interlagos won't change anything to make Lewis Hamilton the title winner.
"For us, the world championship is over, the result is what it is," he told Autosport.
"A team presented an appeal; at the moment, this doesn't change anything - it's up to them to prove they're right.
"You could argue whether McLaren had a right to appeal. They could have protested the result, but they didn't. Apparently they didn't measure the temperature of the fuel.
"But even if the cars classified ahead of Hamilton would be excluded, would this change his position? The court of appeal will have to rule on that."
If the three drivers under the spotlight, Nico Rosberg, Robert Kubica and Nick Heidfeld, are penalised with a time penalty or expulsion, Hamilton would move up to fourth place on the road and therefore score enough points to be crowned 2007 champion, almost a month after the deciding race.
Crash.net / Eurosport

450SEL6.9 · 10-27-2007, 11:46 AM

I already had a bad feeling about the end of the season. Everyone is saying the appeal is a foregone conclusion, but I don't know. The precedents might be irrelevant with Hamilton involved.

By the time Nov. 15 comes it's possible that many have already forgotten Kimi "won" the title on the track and would not be so pissed off if it was then gifted to Hamilton.

Centurion · 10-27-2007, 06:03 PM

There is no question whether or not Mclaren will pursue this. After all, Ferrari took the spy scandal case to the pit so this is a perfect opportunity for Mclaren to get back on Ferrari. After all a win is a win.

RikfromBelgium · 10-28-2007, 02:49 AM

you're comparing the espionage case to this?

450SEL6.9 · 10-28-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luwalira

There is no question whether or not Mclaren will pursue this. After all, Ferrari took the spy scandal case to the pit so this is a perfect opportunity for Mclaren to get back on Ferrari. After all a win is a win.

Ferrari didn't take the spy scandal to the pit. They were upset that the July hearing. Cool fuel and industrial espionage are like night and day. Other teams were also upset that only Mclaren had a voice at the first hearing. Then before the second hearing could proceed, the infamous new email evidence came to light.

If Ferrari wanted to blast the scandal into the stratosphere, they would have pressed for the outright exclusion of the Mclaren drivers, who despite their team being DQed for the spy scandal, was able to compete for the WDC until the final race. One of those drivers might yet take the title on Nov. 15!

Remy Zero · 10-28-2007, 11:27 AM

in my eyes, Kimster is the true champ this season, and mark my words, the WDC won't change on Nov 15.

if the court of appeal were really interested in the case, they would have set the date earlier, not 1 month after the final race of the season. Mac should be ashamed to even appeal.

shonguiz · 10-28-2007, 07:05 PM

Some photos of the RedBull end of the season party:

Felipe Massa with girlfriend Rafaela Bassi arrive at the party.

Rubens Barrichello with his wife Silvana

Nico Rosberg and company arrive at the party

Motorsport director Mario Theissen and team principal Peter Sauber arrive at the party

Team principal Peter Sauber arrive at the party

Adrian Sutil and Markus Winkelhock

Maik Heugel, Vitantonio Liuzzi and a guest

Vitantonio Liuzzi and Bruno Senna(the guy on the right.)

Franck Montagny (in the middle) and guests

with Liuzzi

Sebastian Vettel

Some photos of the formula unas or the red bull slu.. i mean the red bull girls:

Formula Unas Samantha Wong (CHN), Conny Doma (AUT), Sabrina Guilloud (SUI), Amanda Regimbal (CAN), Alessandra Denari (BRA), Ako Nozumi (JPN), Rebecca Bramich (AUS), Samantha Rossato (ITA), Tahnee Frijters (MON), Raquel Chulvi (ESP), Claire Jederek (MAL)

Formula Unas Renee Herlocker (USA), Andrea Szigeti (HUN), Rebecca Bramich (AUS) and Alessandra Denari (BRA)

Formula Unas Alessandra Denari (BRA) and Rebecca Bramich (AUS)

Click here for more photos

shonguiz · 10-28-2007, 07:38 PM

Some photos on Iceman and Ferrari:

Hakkinen congratulating Raikkonen:

Raikkonen Arrival with family at Switzerland (he lives there):

In the Maranello party with the 2 bosses:

Here with the other drivers, Fiat bosses, other guests and Of course The Emperor of F1 in the center sitting in the F-2007 (He did 5 laps in the car and was the only one that drove an F1 that day)

The new dream team: From L to R: Aldo Costa, Stefano dominicalli (not sure about the exact orthograph), Gilles Simon, Lucas, Kimi, Jean, Felippe, Mario Almondo, Michael, Luca Badoer, Luca Baldisseri and sitting behind these two Nicolas Tombazis)

And a final review of the F-2007(credit to AFCA from the autosport forum):

Quote:

Drawing 1
The F2007 was an evolution of the 248 F1 but the differences to that car are numerous and significant. Aerodynamics had changed, as well the suspensions, lay-out of the radiators and above all the weight distribution (which was 45% on the front axle and 55% on the rear axle, to better adapt to the new generation of Bridgestone tyres). One of the most striking aspects of the car was the unusually long wheelbase.

Quote:

Drawings 2 & 3
Compared to its debut in January, the F2007 was already modified for the season opener in Australia on several aspects. Little profiles had been added above the mainplain of the front wing and the shape of the rearwing was revised as well. Other changes had been made to the deflectors and barge boards as well as the engine cover and the undertray.

Quote:

Drawing 4
The F2007 was revolutionary in that it had a zero-keel compared to single keel as was the case with all its predecessors. This demanded a different geometry of the front suspension but was greatly beneficial in terms of aerodynamics.

Quote:

Drawing 5
Many teams copied Ferrari’s profiles above the front wing. On the F2007 they remained pretty much unchanged, apart from some small refinements made to them when the F1 circus moved to Europe.

Because the F2007 had a zero-keel there was room for an extra kind of wing (also see drawing 3 for this once more) underneeth the nosecone and suspensions, connected to the deflectors (which are placed in front of the barge boards).

Quote:

Drawing 6
The rearwing of the F2007 comprises of two sophisticated elements. The central part of the mainplain arises in the middle whereas the upper element has a trapezoidal shape. Another rearwing used during the season, not included in the drawings, had two notches (nice curvy shape) and by some was entitled as the Batmanwing. The wingendplates had a number (depending on the circuit) of slits in them to speed up the airflow. The, by the FIA imposed (to prevent flexing), part that connects the two plains decreases drag as well as enhances the (top)speed performances by a half.

Quote:

Drawings 7 & 8
In Spain Ferrari came up with a massive update on the car, it comprised of significant changes internally (mainlly different placement of the radiators, which alowed to sidepods to be shortened and that demanded new side impact crashtests (see picture at the end of the post) – and electronics) as well as externally (everything apart from the nose was changed). The car became more aerodynamic efficient creating less drag. After long studies in the windtunnel, more gills on top of the sidepods were placed, without ruining the airflow. As a negative result of the updates, the F2007 became even more gentle on the tyres than it already was. This subsequently meant that the car struggled dramatically getting heat in, especially, the soft tyre compounds. It took months to solve this problem and actually be able to fully exploit all the modifications made in Spain.

During the year Ferrari kept changing the shape and surface of the boomerang shaped devices which are located next to the sidepods. Fins on the side of the nosecone had been added to clean up and better regulate the airflow towards the radiators.

Ferrari also introduced the non-moving windshields on the tyres. They enhance cooling of the brakes as well as the overall airflow of the car. They were tested many times before actually being introduced, first at the rearwheels, later at the front wheels also.

Despite Ferrari announcing a big aerodynamic update in Fuji, nothing too special was to be seen in the test previous to it, nor could anything different be spotted in Japan itself. Apart from the so called micro-aerodynamic development (mainly the bargeboards) all concentration was already directed to next year’s car.

Ferrai's crashstructure in the sidepods that had to be tested again in order to introduce the big update in Spain.

450SEL6.9 · 10-28-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remy Zero

if the court of appeal were really interested in the case, they would have set the date earlier, not 1 month after the final race of the season. Mac should be ashamed to even appeal.

I wrote earlier that by Nov. 15 people might have forgotten the title was won on the track and would be less pissed off that it will be given to Hamilton, hence the appeal one-month after the finale. Hamy has gotten so many favorable decisions this year. What's one more? I will stop considering it to be a possibility when the final official word is given. The team that has been involved in mess after mess this year is not Ferrari.

Great post, Shonguiz. For me the hero of this season and many others for Ferrari is standing beside Schumi and it's Luca Badoer.

BTW, Kimi looks to be leaving a commercial airport. Doesn't he have a private jet? Rubens Barrichello, in the pictures above, has apparently a bigger private jet than Schumacher!

Centurion · 10-28-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450SEL6.9

I wrote earlier that by Nov. 15 people might have forgotten the title was won on the track and would be less pissed off that it will be given to Hamilton. He's gotten so many favorable decisions this year. What's one more? I will stop considering it to be a possibility when the final official word is given. The team that has been involved in mess after mess this year is not Ferrari.

BTW, Kimi looks to be leaving a commercial airport. Doesn't he have a private jet?

He might have been dropped by Ferrari's corporate jet. I doubt that he own one himself. They are incredibly expensive and those who own one buy under the name of a company to avoid paying tax. But Kimi does seem to have to economic advisers, he lives in Switzerland just like Shumi and is enjoying the tax free income life.

As for the appeal Mclaren seem to be the force behind it rather than Hamilton. Mclaren wants to win it more than he does. Hamilton is can't be any more happy with his achievements this year. With the spygate fine and lost constructors championship you can get your ass that Mclaren want to end the 2007 season with at least something in their backpack. Any other F1 team would have done the something as Mclaren is doing. Sports teams are essentially corporations and for them winning is everything.

450SEL6.9 · 10-28-2007, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luwalira

But Kimi does seem to have to economic advisers, he lives in Switzerland just like Shumi and is enjoying the tax free income life.

Any other F1 team would have done the something as Mclaren is doing.

It's not quite tax free for them in Switzerland, but it's very low tax for foreigners. I'm almost 100% sure that Schu, Kimi and Fernando all have a tax deal with their canton. Foreigners who do not seek gainful employment in Switzerland can negotiate their own tax deal with local authorities. Their income would be five-times their annual living expenses, which is a killer deal! The tax would be 40% of that, still a steal! Many years ago I read that Schu's tax deal put his living expenses at $200,000 and his income would be (5 x 200,000) $1,000,000. His tax bill would have been $400,000, when he was liking earning $80-100 million!

Williams didn't appeal the season ender in 1994 and one of their cars was directly involved, Hill get punted by Schu. Mclaren's cars are not directly involved here and they didn't even protest the race result.

Anyway, I agree with most of what you said about the appeal, but if the title is to change hands after the appeal, I think it will be for the benefit of Hamilton and ratings, nothing more.

Remy Zero · 10-28-2007, 08:59 PM

great pics and great info! thanks for sharing.

Nico looks very well groomed for the party. early sign that he's driving for Mac next season?

Centurion · 10-28-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450SEL6.9

It's not quite tax free for them in Switzerland, but it's very low tax for foreigners. I'm almost 100% sure that Schu, Kimi and Fernando all have a tax deal with their canton. Foreigners who do not seek gainful employment in Switzerland can negotiate their own tax deal with local authorities. Their income would be five-times their annual living expenses, which is a killer deal! The tax would be 40% of that, still a steal! Many years ago I read that Schu's tax deal put his living expenses at $200,000 and his income would be (5 x 200,000) $1,000,000. His tax bill would have been $400,000, when he was liking earning $80-100 million!

Williams didn't appeal the season ender in 1994 and one of their cars was directly involved, Hill get punted by Schu. Mclaren's cars are not directly involved here and they didn't even protest the race result.

Anyway, I agree with most of what you said about the appeal, but if the title is to change hands after the appeal, I think it will be for the benefit of Hamilton and ratings, nothing more.

Hamilton will certainly benefit if Mclaren come through on the 15th. At the moment he's just laying in the cut and is down for what ever. As a rookie he really doesn't have anything to lose from this controversy.

Another side of this is that F1 is just as twisted as the American justice system and can at times be very beneficial or even unjust depending on who you are and what team you're drive for.

German Car Forum

2007 Brazilian Grand Prix