F1 FIA versus McLaren Fiasco Thread

[PanterroR]

McLaren facing charges in Paris

McLaren will appear before an extraordinary meeting of the FIA World Motor Sport Council on Thursday in the latest chapter of the Formula One espionage affair.

The British team has been summoned to the FIA's headquarters to answer a charge that they breached article 151c of the international sporting code.

The rule relates to 'any fraudulent conduct, or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition, or to the interests of motor sport generally.'

That follows claims that their chief designer Mike Coughlan received sensitive confidential data from sacked Ferrari chief engineer Nigel Stepney back in April.

McLaren have expressed their disappointment at having to appear before the extraordinary meeting of the FIA's World Motor Sport Council and in a statement this month they stress that the team never used or benefited from the information in Coughlan's possession.

Team boss Ron Dennis, who has vehemently protested their innocence, told the BBC on Wednesday that the team had presented the FIA with a full dossier.


"Whilst it would be wrong to say I look forward to Thursday - because I'm not particularly looking forward to it - nevertheless I am keen to get into the process of putting this behind us," he said. "I am confident the information presented to the FIA is the true account of all the circumstances surrounding this matter."

Dennis has previously stated that "no Ferrari materials or data are, or have ever been, in the possession of any McLaren employee other than the individual (Coughlan) sued by Ferrari."

The stakes are high as if the FIA find McLaren guilty Dennis' outfit could be thrown out of this year's world championship or have points deducted.

In the drivers' championship, McLaren's Lewis Hamilton, from Britain, is leading in his debut Formula One season with 70 points from team-mate Fernando Alonso on 68. McLaren are also leading the constructors' championship on 138 from Ferrari (111).

Source: Formula 1 : News MCLAREN - F1-Live.com

 

[Bartek S.]

Re: McLaren in Paris to answer FIA spy charge (updated)


McLaren appeal date set
McLaren's appeal against their Hungarian Grand Prix constructors' championship points penalty has been set for September 19 in Paris. Hungaroring race stewards denied the British team the ability to score constructors points after F. Alonso had impeded his team-mate L. Hamilton in qualifying for the race.
Team boss Ron Dennis made the move to appeal the decision after two days of deliberation.
Formula One's governing body the FIA said: "The International Court of Appeal (ICA) will meet in Paris on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 to hear an appeal lodged by the Motor Sports Association on behalf of its licence-holder Vodafone McLaren Mercedes concerning a decision of the Panel of the Stewards of the 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix.
"In the interests of transparency the hearing will be open to members of the press and details of the accreditation procedure will be published closer to the time."
McLaren currently lead rivals Ferrari by 19 points in the championship with six races to go.
If they win their appeal they will be awarded 15 extra points from Hamilton's win and Alonso's fourth place in Hungary, increasing their advantage to 34.
McLaren will also be in Paris six days earlier for the appeal hearing requested by Ferrari relating to the spy scandal involving the former's chief designer Mike Coughlan.

 

[Monster]

Re: McLaren in Paris to answer FIA spy charge (updated)

Well they have managed to get Mike Coughlan to admit he has the documents, and it has been a while already, how come nobody has managed to get him to tell the FIA how did he get the info and who did he get it from?

 

[Imhotep Evil]

FIA claims new evidence in spy saga

Changes to the September 13th hearing
05/09/07 18:20


The espionage saga involving McLaren and Ferrari took a fresh turn on Wednesday.

F1's governing body revealed in a statement that it has received 'new evidence' and had therefore decided to convene another hearing of the World Motor Sport Council in Paris.

The meeting will happen on September 13th, in the place of an appeal of the original July 26th decision to not penalise Ron Dennis' Woking based team for spying on its Italian rivals.

"The FIA President's referral of the matter to the International Court of Appeal has been withdrawn," the FIA said in a statement on Wednesday.

The governing body also said McLaren representatives had been invited to attend the new meeting, but made no mention of Ferrari.

Due to 'insufficient evidence' in July, the World Motor Sport Council found Woking based McLaren guilty of breaching the International Sporting Code but could not prove that the confidential Ferrari data had been improperly used.


The FIA also said in July that the team faced exclusion from the 2007 and 2008 championships if it is 'found in the future that the Ferrari information has been used.'

FIA statement

"Following the receipt of new evidence the World Motor Sport Council has been reconvened for a hearing in Paris on September 13th.

"In accordance with its decision of July 26th representatives of Vodafone McLaren Mercedes have been invited to attend the hearing.

"The FIA President’s referral of the matter to the International Court of Appeal has been withdrawn."

Source GMM / FIA
CAPSIS International



How cool, now if only McLaren would file complain against Ferrari using an illegal car.

 

[450SEL6.9]

Re: FIA claims new evidence in spy saga

How cool, now if only McLaren would file complain against Ferrari using an illegal car.

It's probably headed that way if this new hearing is meaningful. I still think it's window dressing and Hamy-boy's points haul will be put in a proverbial lock box. Even if TOUI gets a meaningful penalty, Hamilton will escape without a scratch. Perhaps a crane will pick his points up and stick it in an concrete box, where no one can touch them.

If TOUI were to claim an illegal Ferrari car, they would have to argue the stewards that confirmed the results in the early races were in on the scam or grossly oblivious to the regulations.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Re: FIA claims new evidence in spy saga

But they've changed the way the inspect the cars since than.
Ferrari (and others also likely) bypassed the way the inspections were made.
That wasn't the first and it won't be the last a team can bypass inspections.
I fully expect (some/all of the big) teams to have illegal-hidden TC from next year on.

 

[450SEL6.9]

Re: FIA claims new evidence in spy saga

Now Alonso and De La Rosa are allegedly linked to the scandal. No mention of Hamilton! He'll emerge as clean as a baby's bottom. Even if those two Spaniads used the information to help TOUI and indirectly Hamilton's car, I think the WMSC has a perfect excuse to preserve boy wonder's points!

itv.com/f1 - Alonso linked to spy row evidence

 

[Centurion]

Re: FIA claims new evidence in spy saga

Wow this scandal never seem to end. "Evidence" will keep getting dug up until one or two people from Mclaren are behind bars.

 

[Matt530i]

Re: FIA claims new evidence in spy saga

Now Alonso and De La Rosa are allegedly linked to the scandal. No mention of Hamilton! He'll emerge as clean as a baby's bottom. Even if those two Spaniads used the information to help TOUI and indirectly Hamilton's car, I think the WMSC has a perfect excuse to preserve boy wonder's points!

The article says that Alonso and De La Rosa have been offerred immunity if they testify. If things are as bad as they sometimes appear for Alonso at McLaren, and he falls further behind Hamilton this weekend, I wonder how tempted he'd be to say they used the data and see McLaren (and therefore Hamilton) DQ'd for the rest of the season?

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Re: FIA claims new evidence in spy saga

Alonso: `This is a lie`
Friday 7th September 2007


Fernando Alonso has strenuously denied reports claiming that he has provided the FIA with the information needed to launch a fresh hearing into McLaren's role in Stepneygate.


In the latest twist in the spy scandal, the FIA has allegedly obtained information against McLaren from an e-mail exchange between Alonso and the team's test driver Pedro de la Rosa.


The e-mails allegedly made reference to McLaren making use of Ferrari's set-up for their own cars as early as March this year. If the reports are to be believed the e-mail exchange could result in McLaren being excluded from this year's World Championship - and bring an end to Alonso's stay at the Woking team.


The Spaniard, though, denies that he has any involvement in the FIA's new evidence against McLaren.


"This is a lie," he said.


Alonso also refuted suggestions that he wants to see McLaren sanctioned in order to be free to leave the team at the end of the season.


"No way," he told Spanish daily AS.


"I believe that if they (the WMSC) sanction the team they sanction me. I am part of the team and we would share the same problem.


"We are here do win the World title for Drivers' and Constructors'.


"We are leading the two and there is no person in the team who thinks that they are going to sanction us or something is going to happen."

Alonso: 'This is a lie' - Planet-F1 News - from planet-f1.com

 

[450SEL6.9]

Re: FIA claims new evidence in spy saga

The article says that Alonso and De La Rosa have been offerred immunity if they testify. If things are as bad as they sometimes appear for Alonso at McLaren, and he falls further behind Hamilton this weekend, I wonder how tempted he'd be to say they used the data and see McLaren (and therefore Hamilton) DQ'd for the rest of the season?

I think that immunity refers only to their super licenses. The immunity means that their licenses will not be revoked. I don't think it means Alonso can keep his points if Mclaren is found guilty.

Regardless of how TOUI "used" the data to their advantage, I just don't believe anything will happen to Hamilton. Ferrari would really need to do some strong arming to get Hamilton penalized, even if he has benefited from having their secrets.

 

[Centurion]

Re: FIA claims new evidence in spy saga

If Alonso falls down into the pit of hell, he's bound to take Ron Dennis and the whole Mclaren team with him. So Mclaren will probably defend him to all cost.

 

[Bartek S.]

Stewart claims McLaren 'witch hunt'


FIA have been accused of conducting a witch hunt against McLaren by former world champion Sir Jackie Stewart.
Stewart made the claim on the eve of Ron Dennis team's date before the World Motor Sport Council in Paris on Thursday in what will be the latest installment in the spygate saga that has rocked the sport this season.
"It seems some of the most powerful people are more aligned to Ferrari than anybody else," the three time former world champion told BBC Sport.
He added: "The FIA have historically been very close to Ferrari, closer to them than anyone else.
"There are more Ferrari representatives on the World Council than anybody else.
"I'm not saying that there hasn't been wrongdoing.
"But to start witch-hunting and trying to implicate a team principal (Dennis) to a level that is currently going on, I think is negative to the sport."
McLaren are accused by Ferrari of benefitting from information contained in a 780-page dossier leaked to their chief designer Mike Coughlan by the Italian team's sacked performance director Nigel Stepney.
Dennis has always denied the team capitalised in any way from the information contained in the dossier.
McLaren were found guilty of fraudulent conduct but escaped punishment due to insufficient evidence when the case was first heard in July, but risk being docked points or thrown out of the championship if found guilty second time around.
The FIA called Thursday's hearing after receiving copies of e-mail contact between F. Alonso and his fellow Spaniard, McLaren test driver Pedpo de la Rosa.
Motorsport's rulers strongly rejeted accusations of bias however, a spokesperson saying last week: "The suggestion that the FIA's ongoing investigation is about anything other than the pursuit of sporting fairness demonstrates a blinding refusal to accept the basic facts."
Ferrari concede the affair is bad for F1 but insist they are pursuing the case in the best interests of F1.
Ferrari boss Jean Todt, speaking at Monza at the weekend, said: "It's a taint on the sport. I think that we are sorry that it is happening in Formula One, but we are in the position where we want the truth to appear.
"And that's all that we want, and all that we have been working on and doing, and we are confident that the truth will come through."
McLarens's championship leader, British rookie L. Mamilton, has warned that his dream of lifting the title could be wrecked by the scandal.
"If you sit down and think about it, I could have what I've worked for -- and what all the team have worked for -- we could have it taken away from us."
"It was just going so well and then you just get this big knife that cuts off your blood line," he added.
Hamilton, second to Alonso in Sunday's Italian Grand Prix, leads the drivers' title race by three points from his Spanish teammate.
Stewart claims McLaren 'witch hunt' - Yahoo! Eurosport UK

 

[Zonda]

Re: Stewart claims McLaren 'witch hunt'

Cheating is cheating and should be punished. But I really hope McLaren gets away not too badly hurt.
Just think about the times when people in charge have ruled in Ferrari's favour. Like Monza 2006, Alonso impeding Massa? And that's not the only case.
Excluding McLaren out of championships is just wrong and would ruin the sport. Would be more fair if McLaren were obliged to share detailed documents on their car instead or something like that to level things out.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Re: Stewart claims McLaren 'witch hunt'

Ofcourse FIA is the Ferrari Intervention Association.
But come on, leaving McLaren without any penalty (witch could have freed Alonso ).

I've wondered if the penalty in Hungary wasn't for compensation.

Ofcourse I'd like a penalty against Ferrari too for the the use of the flex-floor.

 

[chonkoa]

Re: Stewart claims McLaren 'witch hunt'

Blah blah blah.
Cheating is cheating, and whatever punitive measure that is appropriate should be meted out to deter future occurrence.

 

[450SEL6.9]

Re: Stewart claims McLaren 'witch hunt'

I think Jackie is allowing his British national pride to get in the way of his objectivity (what's left of it) again. If it was Mclaren being victim, I think several retired Brits would be hopping mad that the process is not enough of a witch hunt and screaming, "Perdition to the Ewiw Italian Empire!"

 

[Imhotep Evil]

I'll repost my post here

Ferrari's interest have absolutely nothing to do with moral obligations
They're simply pissed off that they can't win on the track the championships.
Those documents are basicaly irrelevant or almost to the MP4-22 architecture, and they know it. That's why in the Toyota case only the persons involved were punished and Ferrari didn't made a fuss.

Ferrari and moral (obligations) go together as much as McLaren and integrity.

One should call Ferrari the Team Of Utmost Morality, with the proper quotes.


I very much hope, being biased, that McLaren would be punished because that'll liberate Alonso.

To sum up here's a quote I found on some board

McLaren's integrity is a lie. Ferrari are gamers and not racers.

Also what's with this B* McLaren have with Renault now ?!

 

[coolraoul]

Re-post too, thought it was that topic when I posted in Belgian GP...

Ferrari's interest have absolutely nothing to do with moral obligations
They're simply pissed off that they can't win on the track the championships.
Those documents are basicaly irrelevant or almost to the MP4-22 architecture, and they know it. That's why in the Toyota case only the persons involved were punished and Ferrari didn't made a fuss.

Agree, the cars are very different and the solutions can't be adapted.
McLaren produces all docs for each piece of their car and for every improvements, and proved they did not use at all the Ferrari's documents.

The tyres pressures and all that are also very different from one to another F1, so it is all media stuff and publicity against McLaren, even if what they did is really stupid and must be sanctionned.

The last race proved that McLaren does not need any Ferrari info to be much faster and much more reliable.

McLaren must be sanctionned, but as they did not use and did not benefit from all that, the sanction can't be to exclude them from 2 years, including one where they are much better than Ferrari.

The stupidly oversanctioned race of Hungarian was thought to be the sanction imho.

Ferrari hates it to loose, and it is not the first time that they try to win out of the circuit when their cars can't win the races...

 

[Bartek S.]

McLaren tried to involve Renault in spy case

A FIA spokesman has strengthened speculation that McLaren tried to drag Renault into F1’s escalating espionage affair ahead of the World Council hearing on Thursday. Following rumours that boss Ron Dennis is in possession of potentially explosive evidence that could incriminate the French team as well as Ferrari, the governing body was contacted for comment.
ITV quotes a FIA spokesman as confirming that “certain matters regarding Renault F1″ have been raised in recent days by McLaren, as the Woking based team prepares to face new and potentially damning evidence at the World Motor Sport Council on Thursday. It is understood that McLaren’s information about Renault and Ferrari is technical in nature, rather than relating specifically to the spy scandal.
“We can confirm that McLaren lawyers have recently brought to our attention certain matters regarding Renault F1,” the FIA spokesman said.
“But we can also confirm that the (Renault) team does not form any part of our investigations into McLaren’s alleged breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code.
“The FIA has reminded McLaren that the World Council hearing in Paris on Thursday will focus solely on the new evidence in that investigation. To the extent required, any other matters will be dealt with as part of an entirely separate process.
“Renault F1 is aware of this and is happy to cooperate.” Renault boss Flavio Briatore told La Gazzetta dello Sport: “(Dennis is) throwing stones a bit everywhere. We are calm, no problem at all.” (GMM)