German Car Forum

I hate to bring this up again because it has been discussed in detail a while ago, and none of us has experienced such a problem.

But today one of my dad's friends told him his 2004 E240 just had a complete brake failure. Fortunately he was not driving fast and he was able to roll to a stop. He said the warning lights came up suddenly and he lost all braking pressure, he was practically standing on the brakes but there wasn't any braking pressure at all. He sent the car in for repair, the mechanic replaced some 'computer chips' and the car is back to normal. I don't know if the car has undergone all the required recall services, and I don't know the exact repair performed by the mechanic.

The exact same problem has also happened to my dad's other friend's 2003 E320, and my friend's dad's 2002 E320.

From what I have seen and read, there is no hydraulic backup system (Gullwing can correct me if I am wrong), so the brakes become completely unassisted when the electronics goes down, and whatever tiny brake pressure your foot would generate were only applied to the front wheels.

I don't know what to make of this really, our E has been fine, same with ree's and wimmer's car, but then again my father's friend's E240 were going fine for 5 years before this happened.

So what do you guys think?

I think that everyone in Australia drives an E-Class

Jokes apart, I think that it was a big fault by Mercedes to rely the car's braking system purely on electronics. Brakes is the most important part of the car when it comes to safety and since you can't rely on electronics 100% there is always room for electric problems.

Oh I forgot to mention, both of my dad's friends are in Hong Kong, my friend's dad is in Australia.

I'm pretty sure there is supposed to be some mechanical backup system for the brakes...Or maybe that is U.S. only?

When the SBC pump goes out there is a hydraulic backup (manual braking to the front wheels only) you need to stand on the pedal with everything you have to get it to work. If you can think straight hit the parking brake also and downshift.

I know in the US the warranty on the pump unit is now 10 year 100K miles? Not sure in your area of the world. You can probably expect to replace the several thousand dollar unit every 8-10 years.

There are several recalls on the unit, mainly coding.

This is scary. I think as W211's get older, we (hopefully not) might start seeing more problems with SBC.

There's a Website I've looked at that shows totaled cars, A LOT of the W211's have a big red "Stop, Braking Malfunction!" Or whatever it says in the speedo digital display.

Really freaky stuff.

...and the manufacturers will always say this cannot happen. Should it happen anyway, the customer is told that he or she is lying.

So you just photograph the failure message on the car's screen, you show it to the dealer, and you threaten to sue them if they don't fix your problem. Same case with me and Volvo, when I had an anti-spin failure, more than 10 times on a row.

Though, the worst part of the problem is, that when the SBC system fails, you can only brake based on your foot strenght, and you can only brake the front wheels, or use the handbrake. So, it can get pretty dangerous...

I've always read that there was a mechanical backup that requred A lot of pressure to work.

Our E had several SBC failure messages come up, but not once did we actually lose braking ability.

Well just because the red message is in the IC does not mean it was the cause of the accident. If there was any damage to the SBC system or electrical system that message would come up.

It's a good thing we got a fact-lift run out model of the W211. No more SBC.

This isn't a failure. SBC is supposed to work for a limited time (approx 70k km.) and then be replaced. That's why MB gives lifetime warranty for it.

Wimmer's car and Ree's car has both gone over 70k km without any problems, I think they didn't replace their SBC either.

What are you trying to say???

You have any source? I guess no...

SBC is supposed to last as long as the vehicle does.

And furthermore, I velieve that given the much more powerful pump, it allows the ESP to last as long too (an average ESP system cannot work too long; generally it is designed to last 300.000kms with an average use, the pump has to be replaced earlier if the ESP is heavily used and later if not so used. It means the big majority of cars will never need a replacement as either the ESP is not too used, or the car doesn't go as far as 300.000++ kms).

The SBC has no such limitations, and some W211 E-Classes have 600.000kms and the first SBC system.

I believe that official Mercedes-Benz dealer is a pretty good source smth tells me they know more than you

As i said approximate 70k. Could be more or less. It depends on how you use brakes

Sbc is supposed to be changed for free. I've done that a few months ago, and it cost me nothing (2004 e-class - that means no general warranty)

Could you post a source, an official statement about this? if yes, you have all my sincerest apologies.

It's just that it seems highly suspicious fo MB to sell a car whose brake system has to be changed every 70k kms!!

If it proves right, I'll definitely consider the pre-FL W211, Maybach, SLR and pre-FL SL to be cars I will never ever intend to buy regardless of their price. It is an idea I just cannot live with that something like the braking system has such a limited lifetime.

But I really don't think it is true, I've never heard of that. Would be a shame.

MB did not build a braking system that is only going to last 70K kms and if you think that...
warranty in the US on the SBC system is ten year 100K miles.

The newer (mainly software) and pumps are designed to last longer than the first ones.

The dealer might know more than me, but not much

I reckon they haven't made any statements about it.

You don't have to change the braking system, sbc itself is a 10-20cm. electronic box. Whole procedure takes couple hours (service should get confirmation from germans)

Don't you find highly suspicious that MB were making cars which were braking down several dozen times a year (w220,w163 etc)?

The Schrempp-era MBs were certainly not bullet-proof reliable. But they were certainly not engineered to break down every XX kms. And they didn't break down several dozens of times a year. Some never did, at all.

I know people with those cars who are experiencing no troubles at all. You might have a greater number of those cars experiencing breakdowns, it doesn't mean they are all unreliable. Far from it, very far.

No way MB engineered a braking system that needs replacement that often.

If that piece needs replacement, then it IS written in the ckeck-up booklet of the MB dealers. And so far, I've never heard anything of that kind, ever.

SBC was a great addition to braking system of W211 but it turn out to be problematic. So MB decide to remove it from the facelift model. As far as I know there is no 70k lifetime. I have seen cars with 300K without need to replace it. Though newer versions of SBC are more reliable this problem cost millions to MB and Bosh because there is a lifetime warranty. Never less in my opinion W211 is a great vehicle and one of the best Mercedes ever made.

Our W211 E220 CDI has SBC, and is a 6MT model, so we use the SBC all the time for hill starts, and now I would never buy a car without this feature.

At nearly 150.000 km, the SBC system has never failed or had any problems, but we have the car serviced only by MB, and all recalls have been performed.

In fact, the only non-warranty repair was replacing the DPF at ~110.000 km.

Good to know there is another reliable W211 in this forum.