The Sports GT in progressive movement : The BMW 6er F12/F13/F14

As it looks now the economy will bounce back ... The system is almost intact ... Everybody is working on patching that system instead changing it.

It's like just slightly tailoring the rules for the same game.

Every huge company has lobbyists around the most important capitals & cities around the world. And they are very well informed. From both sides.

So, the economy restart will happen - sooner or later. A matter of few years.

Of course the pre-crisis level will still be far away, but ...

The problem is this patched system is not ready to survive more than a decade. So, I hope the wise men will change it softly during that period ... otherwise: BOOOOM! A crisis much deeper than this one.

Of course it can happen that even patching fails - if not implemented soon enough, and a critical mass of bankrupts happen in acertain country or around the world.

Everything is still very fragile. The latest example from automotive industry: eg. Renault encounters huge demand for their small cars around the Europe, but due to a strike in some suppling company they had to stopped the whole production since they can't get some steering mechanisms from that supplier. And if that supplier dies off ... Bad times for Renault despite great current demand, production & sales.

There is zillion of such cases acroos all possible industry sectors. If only one very specific small supplier fails than even the giants can fall quickly.


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Yes, what BMW are doing is risky. But even more devasting would be if doing nothing.

They have learnt that in Rover debacle - when they cut down the R&D resources ... and then the glitchy iDrive & E65 7er happened etc.

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Regarding niche vehicles. I've explaid it onece how it works. It's all about price / value / profit cahin. Eg. 10k 5er GTs sold generstes as much profit as eg 50k sedans sold (ratio is fictional but I'm only showing you a principle). Eg. same case with X6.

Spin-off variants of core models are relatively cheap to develop & produce - since R&D and parts sharring is extensive.

Mind projects like, Panamera, R8 or SLS are much more risky & costly than the 5er GT or 6er GT - from short-term business perspective. Since there was a lot of R&D resources invested in that car - sitting on a unique platform etc.

Ramen - It's interesting you mentioned Honda - They're releasing a "crossover" in the short-term, but in reality it's an Accord wagon that they're grooming for American acceptance. I hope it does well because it's an extremely practical, versatile product that really does adhere to core Honda values.

But otherwise - Honda is now benefiting from their being so conservative on product development. What was once seen as lack of vision is now seen as virtue, and they're reaping the benefits of having a vehicle fleet that is very interoperable in terms of re-tooling plants to regulate inventory.

So, even if Honda Pilot sales are sagging, the same plant can switch over to Accords. This hasn't been the case with Toyota, who invested heavily in their new Tundra/Sequoia program, and are stuck with lead shoes in the short-term.

You make a good point about people's perception of a "turnaround." The general public still seems to be in denial about the general state of the economy, and the sheer magnitude of the problem we're in. It's like we have a post dot-com-bubble mentality at the moment, where we're just looking for the feds to pull all the right levers until the illness is cured, and we can go right back to the double-digit market growth that Americans have come to regard as a birthright.

When we pull out of this thing, it's going to be so soft that most folks probably won't recognize that the recession has ended. Unemployment will be so high that even modest growth probably won't feel like growth at all. So I'm extremely skeptical whenever I see rhetoric that seems to suggest that we'll score a "victory" over our current state and rise from the ashes like a phoenix with a platinum-gold card.

While we're at it - Here's some must-see analysis by Nouriel Roubini on the subject:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv.../Business/News?pid=RTGAM.20090403.wrroubini03

Eni - Great thoughts as always. It's going to be hard to see platform-exclusive vehicles like the Panamera or R8 get funding in the near future. But repurposed assets - in the form of a 6er or X6 are becoming a smart maneuver for luxury car makers and I don't expect to see the practice completely evaporate in the future as companies like BMW become better and better at mastering the efficiencies of creating high-margin niche products.

Exactly. Killing such a spin-off is easy - and replacing it with another spin-off if needed.

BMW needed much flexibility - in platform R&D and in production.

That was the main point behind replacing Panke with Reithofer in the BMW position. Panke didn't do much in production & R&D rationalization. He was also criticized not to greenlight highly profitable spin-offs soon enough.

Spin-offs are much more profitable than unique platforms - and much less risky business case.

Spin-offs are also easy to produce - in the same plants than core models. And if there is a demand for a certain model then the production can be adjusted very easily.

From the marketing point of view it's also easy: it's a core-model-spin-off: featuring main goodies as the core model + some extras + different shape (usually more exotic). Adding some extra value. And as said: today customers' needs are changing. People now want all-in-one products. Even in the automotive sector. Therefore zillions cross-overs & spin-offs.

That's the trend ... And it's going on despite the crisis.

So, the cars of the future are super-efficient all-in-one cross-overs.

Yeah, I know. When you put it this way, of course it makes sense. Thats why I said that the people who are crunching the numbers (accountants) must be happy otherwise it would never happen.

Once again, I'm not at the marketing level that you guys are at. So, of course, I can't say for sure exactly whats going to happen. There is obviously internal research that was done to satisfy what you guys are saying. It would be a different tune if the stats showed something different.

I think that is actually part of the problem. Many people in this country are just so oblivious to what is going on that they just take in whatever their favorite media channel feeds them without ever questioning it. It's like the "clean coal" commercials that are run by Coal companies, you really do have to question it sometimes. I laugh pretty much everyday on the state of the economy because everyday there is a new "Economist" talking about how the economy will recover. One thing I've learned from my economics class is that you can never be certain, yet all these "pundits" just keep talking out of their ass about how things will be.

The best estimates right now are basically stating that the economy will slowly recover around late 09 or early 2010 and then unemployment rate will slowly drop around mid to late 2010. Economy will slowly normalize around 2011...hopefully, as long as those greedy F__king execs aren't sitting on more sh!t.

Of course there is no customer demand research saying "People want exactly a vehicle like that." It's just data what people like already, what would they change, what alternatives (vehicle's characteristics) they need / prefer etc. So, based on that the think tank in the company then comes out with several ideas which address above mentioned issues / needs / preferences. And it's then up to key people to come up with elaborates dealing with the project from different perspectives - some sort of extended SWAT analyses. And then it's all up to Board of Directors to decided which project will get a greenlight.

So, there of course can happen the analysts & strategists misread / misinterpret the research reports, and suggest wrong solutions to the problem. Or perhaps the BoD makes a mistake, and pick the wrong proposed solution (the whole package, not the design only).

But, yes - there is tons of researches done, giving excellent feedback to what's happening in markets around the world, and where to the trends are heading.

Mind the point of product strategies is to predict & follow the future trends, conditions, situations, etc. Those guys have some serious info in their hands, and a very excellent insight what's going on (the trends) in all the relevant fields for the product: from customer demands to legislation, tech development, business environment, market situations etc.

And based on those trends they are predicting situation for at least 7 years or more ahead.

:t-cheers:




Regarding the economy: it's a system completely made by men. Especially the economy of today: which hardly deals with management of limited resources.

So, if you ask me: every crisis & every system can be even created, overcome or destroyed if there is enough interest of people in charge - being that heads of key states, or multibillioners (or owners of some huge key corporations) with huge influence. Especially if the crisis is global, and such proprtions as this one.

My motto: when huge amount of money or power is at stake nothing is coincidential. In such cases stakes are too high not to conrol the situation somehow.

If there would be a real interest to end this crisis quickly - then the soultion can be find & properly executed in a few weeks. But ...

Someone is taking advantage of this crisis. The real question is why not who. And I don't like all the gambling. One of the key parties will have to give up. Soon.

Thanks for the insight. I'm guessing the SWOT you're talking about is Variable based SWOT which is quite specific to a certain project/theme than an overall SWOT that just determines the company's standings. I'm quite good at SWAT because my analytical skills are top notch. That's why I didn't want to make it seem like I'm putting anyone down, because I know nothing gets done without numbers being crunched first. It was my boss' motto in the marketing department: DATA! DATA! DATA!

As for the economy, of course, anything that is made by humans can be used, destroyed, abused, etc. It is solely based upon the virtues or us that the system runs. And of course, someone is taking advantage of what is going on right now, that is human nature. Shoot, if I had money right now I'd be buying up land and other commodities like there is no tomorrow. I will always remember the old saying that I was taught by my dad when I was 7: Money makes money.

You mean SWOT, don't you? I thought marketing guys swore by it

Yeah, SWOT...LOL. It's the internet...we can spell it however we want. Dang Nabit!

Of course it's SWOT. Ouch! :eusa_doh:

Thats like calling your own wife Maria, when her actual name is Marla.
I guess not a good thing.

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But in the end ... SWOT indeed is our special weapon and tactic.

hmmm.....

hi, i have a question
who want a folding hardtop and who of you wants a softtop
i love the softtop and i think it is the better idea to put one in the 6er

Not a good thing if you actually have a mistress by the name of Maria.

I want a folding Hard-top. I've NEVER been a fan of soft-top. Soft-top makes the car look un-balanced and cheap. And, of course, it's NEVER as good as a solid old roof. :t-cheers:

Folding hardtop for me. Soft roofs are noisier.

Well said. Crises is the time to build strategy for good times coming down the road.

Same sausage different thinkness?

Bartek, you're definitely wrong with this. For example, the Audi 4 Convertible and Mercedes CLK are less noisy then the 3-series Convertible! :t-cheers:

BMW 335i E93 vs. MB CLK 350 Convertible




I like both - depends on the car! For the CLK or 6-series I would definitely prefer the soft top. Looks much better in my opinion. If I want a hardtop version, I would go for the Coupé!

Aren't these numbers for the top-down (open roof) case? :t-hands:

Top up (closed roof) … :t-cheers: