Discussion in 'SCOTT27's Info Channel' started by SCOTT27, Apr 13, 2009.
The design bosses favour the Shooting-Brake variant since it has much greater & special presence & charisma than the "regular" 4dr coupe.
As said: otherwise the cars are almost identical inside & outside.
With no details given exact a clue the design elements will be somewhat similar to CS concept, with a profile (coupe) similar to the current one.
Given the fact BMW like to open new segments (X6, 5er GT etc) perhaps 6er GT in shooting brake variant has better chances to be greenlighted that a "regular" 4dr coupe - since this segment is starting to become saturated (CLS, A7, Panamera etc).
I'm so glad BMW decided to go the uglier shooting brake route..good luck
Read more carefully: nothing is decided yet!
Just wait to see latest CLT impression in the lates AutoBild.
MB considers to go shooting-brake as well.
^Well we all know what "in favour" of means when it comes to BMW decision makers.
And yeah MB already showed their vision of the shooting brake style with Fascination concept which i'm not a big fan of too.
Allow me to state the obvious - The world economy is in the toilet, which leaves no room for BMW to embark on experiments with premium-car packaging.
Even in a thriving economy the business case for a "4 door coupe" 6er is tenuous - the niche has rapidly filled to capacity with the debut of the Panamera, and there's lots of redundancy issues with the 5er.
Expect the next 6er to be a premium GT-style coupe and cabrio, that's it.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a concept car at an auto show that's an alternative-reality 6er, like we saw with the 5er hatch - but mark my words, BMW understands that the pond just shrank, and will act accordingly.
I certainly hope so.
This many GT things is getting out of hand.
Thanks for all the info. I must admit, the GT doesn't sound too appealing. Once again, it just comes off as unnecessary.
I agree with Osnabrueck, that it's probably not the best of times to be experimenting. In this case, pushing something onto the public that it hasn't asked for.
The crisis will be over some day ... And the carmaker who won't be ready at that time - offering new, fresh & competitive products will be doomed.
Of course EfficientDynamics & "Project i" are #1 priorities.
But new niche products are still being considered. Especially the ones which will generate high profits. While some with lower profit margin have been canceled or put on ice.
Geez ... In the middle of the crisis BMW are coming out with vehicles like 5er GT, X5 M, X6 M ... Porsche with Panamera ... Aston Martin with Rapide ... Audi with A5 & A7 SportBack ... MB with SLS etc.
OK, those projects were started way before the crisis ... And are just coincidently launched in most akward times possible.
But the crisis will be over, and the people will still want to drive fancy cars.
So, why eg. canceling the 7er GT in favor of 6er GT. Since 5er/6er platform is much more prfitable already - and another version based on that platform (first one is 5er GT, second one is 6er GT) is much more economicyl & profitable - also due economy of scales.
7er platform is much more low-volume platform - despite 7er + 7erGT + baby RR the sales would only reach 60-70k annually at best. While 5er/6er platform can come close to 280-300k per year at best.
And just like in the 5er case BMW also got some excellent feedback from the (potential) customers: wanting more practical, versatile & comfortable large sports coupe. Something like CLS. But due BMW being a sportier brand they decided to give more emphasis on sportness than on comfort / prestige. Therefore "hidden" rear doors etc. While Shooting Brake shape would give the car even more versatility.
People want crossovers ("hybrid shapes") in all segments ... 2-in-1, 3-in-1, or even all-in-one philosophy is becoming more & more present in automotive segment.
Cars like gadgets: multifunctional purpose. Like a cell phone with camera & multi-media player, GPS device etc instead of several seperate devices.
Mind not all customers need 100% capability of a separate device - perhaps only 30%, or 20% etc. To some it's more important to have all-in-one multi-capable device.
So, some customers want a multi-functional single car - a crossover - instead of two or three separate cars.
Especially premium segment is more tolerant in this respect: accepting more exotic crossovers.
And mind BMW brand is now considered most innovative & avant-garde premium brand - so such crossovers fi well into the new BMW image.
I like the idea of crossovers if implemented correctly, but a "four door shooting brake" sounds dangerously close to a wagon. Even with the rear suicide doors (which I think are a great idea). So here's hoping the final design for 6GT is a fastback shape. 'Cause that one I would be interested in.
Can't wait for BMW to dig their own grave further by releasing a GT version of the 5-Series GT.:eusa_doh:
LMAO, as if they are digging their grave BMW is stronger than ever, and is completely and utterly high tech and up to date. Recession will fade away again in the future, and BMW will be ready in full force with smart solutions. Can't wait!!!
Darwin and his rules of natural selection? It's the same with cars. They change and evolve, and what's hot now might not be tomorrow. If the 5er GT would become a new standard (not saying it will, cause it won't), they will indeed make a new 5er GT GT to have a new niche product
BMW and the rest of the German car industry will emerge strong when all the dust has settled - but they will emerge as leaner, more focused companies with less product sprawl and a bias towards core brand values.
But for starters - exactly when will the dust settle? Major indicators tell us that the worst has yet to come for the rest of the globe as the US, with a newly tightened belt, has lost its appetite for imports. International trade is falling at an alarming rate, so naturally, the German car industry is setting its phasers to pessimistic.
And what does that mean for product? It means that low-volume, segment-wedge products won't have the oxygen to survive on novelty and brand cache alone.
Does that mean that the X6, CLS and Panamara are doomed? Not by any means - But what it does mean is that manufacturers now lack the rationale to go out on a limb and extend scope of their products outside of their core brand values.
So in simple terms - Don't expect Land Rover to release coupe, don't expect Jaguar to finally do an SUV and by no means should we expect the next 6er to come in multiple permutations outside of the traditional coupe/cab box.
Folks - over the past 10 years we've lived through the most extraordinary explosion of global wealth, and we've seen brands like BMW, Audi and Mercedes go from being relatively lean, focused companies with a very narrow roster of core products to sprawling, massive empires with vehicles that span, and gap, virtually every imaginable segment up and down the automotive food chain.
And conversely, we're seeing the economy suffer the fiscal equivalent of a collapsed lung. The contraction we find ourselves in has never been confronted, and is reverberating throughout the globe instead of being contained by two or three major markets. The thought of BMW et al. blazing a trail with new breeds of luxury vehicles in a drastically constricted market isn't just unthinkable - it's outright ludicrous.
Not sure if these were posted before. Not too bad in my view:
Personally, I can't wait for the next 6er. I think it's going to be a drop-dead stunner.
Should be read : more headroom to be packaged and sell. Just look at the hunchback 5er GT
While I do agree with some points, I don't agree with everything you said. You're trying to rationalize making niche products on the basis that when this is over everyone will all of a sudden want some weird stuff that only exists in the minds of the designers and some pencil pushers. That is what I don't agree with.
I know why BMW is making these weird vehicles but I don't like the fact that they just won't admit that they are pushing this onto the public rather than public wanting this. I don't think I've ever met any 6er owner who would want a Hatch. I know profitability is an issue, but damn yo, don't sell your soul over it.
BTW...don't get me wrong. I'm looking forward to the 6er Coupe.
so lets say this hypothetical 6er GT is green ligthed for production, is it aimed more at the panamera/rapide or CLS?
Well said Ramen - With the X5 and X6 M we've just witnessed the end of the "miracle period" for German Car fans. Over course of the past 10 years the overheated global economy has created viable markets for fever-dream ideas that would have just been car-porn vaporware at any other time.
I can't pinpoint the exact moment this started, but I would go out on a limb and lay the blame for the recent "product bubble" on the explosive success of SUVs in the late 90s.
At first, the idea of a luxury softroader was a kind of taboo that seemed like tacky excess for American yuppies living on the coasts - But then the Lexus & Mercedes gambled and went on to make an absolute killing on the RX and ML respectively. The rest of the automotive world took note, and got to work fast as they could.
At one time it was blasphemy to think about a BMW SUV, but then the X5 went on to sell like hotcakes and became natural part of the brands' landscape. After that, Porsche capitulated, and in doing so made off like bandits.
Moving into the 2000s, we even saw Europe gain an appetite for SUVs, and it became a non-event to see an X5, Q7 or Touareg on German roads.
With all all the money that was made with tastes shifting from "CAR" ---> "$ SUV $" you can see how the executives started rubbing their hands around ushering in "the Next SUV." The thinking being - If you could set the trend, instead of anticipating the trend and falling in behind it, then you'd be cashing in like a sonofabitch.
And so were born cars that nobody really asked for - real platypus-type affairs where the message was "You don't think you want this now, but give it a few years and everybody's gonna want to drive this shit."
The results have been mixed. The R-Klasse has been a bona-fide failure in every sense, but the CLS was met with relative success and scored Mercedes some real style points. The jury is still out on the X6, but you have to admit it's halfway crazy that such a thing went to production... and it's kinda neat too. Panamera? Who knows. Will people actually put one in their driveway when push comes to shove?
One thing is certain though - These cars were made possible because the overall volume of global car sales has been artificially high for some time, opening up the possibilities for cars to be built with an implied audience - instead of an established one - because brand cache guaranteed that a minimum amount of people would opt-in to have 'the new designer thing' in their driveway." Or to put it in very cliched terms - The tail was wagging the dog when it came to product development.
The volume of new car sales in the US has gone from approx. 15.5 million units per annum just a couple of years ago to today's projected 9 million. That's a terrible number for everybody involved in the car business, including yours truly.
With this cratered market, the companies who emerge victorious won't be the brands who took a gamble developing the next segment-blending transportation concept - it will be the companies that hunker-down and deliver quality, value and products that are relevant to consumers at a very fundamental level.
At the moment, it's sad to see all the inertia still unspooling as plans that were hatched 3 years ago start to see fruition. As I see it now, the Germans have no choice but to trim-down or just abandon some models altogether. There's just too much capacity and too little demand - it will be very interesting to see how everything plays out. I just hope that the Germans manage to do it in a way that keeps their brand equity intact, instead of going down the road of lower-quality value products in search of raw sales and market share.
^^Damn Osna, that was VERY well put. I can't even begin to comment on that.
What I will highlight is this statement:
"Will people actually put one in their driveway when push comes to shove?"
I think that is the question that pretty much every automaker is asking themselves right now. The ones who have asked this question and came up with the answer "Do we want to risk it?" are the Japanese, especially Honda. They have pretty much cut down on most of their projects that don't meet core requirements, the only exception being the X6 fighter that Acura has made, but just like the Panamera and X5/6M, they were pretty much done so they have no choice but to bring it out.
I think BMW is being VERY optimistic. I'm don't know how their market research and sale projections are being done but I'm guessing that the accounting dept must be satisfied if they are going ahead with these pet projects. I don't want to sound like an ass and make the marketing dept at BMW or any automaker (except Detroit 3) seem like idiots, because I don't have internal information and I want to work for them when I get my Marketing Degree, but from external perspective, it does seem a tad bit unnecessary. I think people expect the economy to bounce back, literally, when in reality it will gradually go rise. There are too many determinants right now to make an accurate projection, but this recession is still a business cycle, albeit a forced recession thanks to greed and unchecked business practices, but we will come out of it and it will be a slow recovery. A fast recovery would honestly make me doubt that it's real growth we're seeing and not just another false growth we saw in the last few years.