The price is as surprising as the car! The LFA loses its luster for me when it costs more than a 458 Ferrari Italia. That's quite a step for this brand, good thing they will only make 500 a year at that price point. If I read it correctly, it will be about $500,000 (360K pound sterling). That's more ballzy than the design.:t-crazy2:
Autoweek - Tokyo auto show: The new Lexus LFA is one beautiful screamer In the same way that you don't want to bring a knife to a gunfight, you don't want to show up at the Nürburgring with some floppy old commuter car. There are parts of this storied circuit that can and should scare the bejesus out of almost any sane human behind a wheel. And when we say Nürburgring, we don't mean the new, safe, runoff-happy GP 'Ring, the one where you could go straight at the end of the straight and the worst thing that would happen is embarrassment as you slowly dug deeper into the gravel trap or slid around on the plentiful grass like a drunken frat boy piloting a golf cart on the links with his bros. No, we are talking about the old, original 'Ring, the Nordschliefe, the one made in the 1920s with skinny pavement, almost no runoff area and parts so remote they won't necessarily ever even find you when you commit your last big screwup. This 'Ring was built when men were men and death--much more so than in modern times--was a part of everyday life, certainly a part of racing. So when we showed up at the 'Ring, all suited up in Nomex from head to toe and all the way out to the fingertips, we came prepared--with a Lexus LFA. Yes the LFA, the car that has been shown in one "concept" form or another for what seems like forever. It was first shown at Detroit in 2005 and has been trotted out in various guises at car shows since. They even raced LFAs twice, at the Nürburgring 24 Hours in 2008 and 2009. So everybody knows it works well and can get around this track fairly quickly. But Lexus has never let just any average driving schmo like us behind the wheel, certainly not here at the Nordschliefe. Until now. Fast and predictable What was it like to drive? It is fast, for sure, quick off the line and quick in passing. But it also is remarkably stable and predictable. You can't say that about all supercars. Let's start with the basics. Its 3,256 pounds of curb weight are rocketed off the line by a 554-hp dry-sump V10 that'll take it from 0 to 62 mph in just 3.7 seconds. Top speed is a hearty and wailful 204 mph. Yes, 204 mph! We were on our way to that speed earlier in the day on the autobahn but ran out of room. Instead of 204, we topped out at "only" 172 mph. The remarkable thing about piloting the LFA at that speed was its stability. The engine is longitudinally mounted in front and it drives the rear wheels through a torque tube, rear-mounted six-speed ASG automated sequential gearbox and a limited-slip differential. While the balance is 48/52, putting the weight out on the ends of the structure as opposed to gathering it all in the middle gives it a lower polar moment. It will tend, in general, to not spin around as quickly as a rear-engine Porsche or a mid-engine Spyker, Ferrari or Audi R8 5.2 V10. "In our religious philosophy we say, 'As long as you are in the hand of the Buddha you are safe,' " is how chief engineer Haruhiko Tanahashi described putting the weight out at the ends of the car for better inherent stability. "You can have the best pleasure, but you are safe." We hear ya on that religious experience. If you lift off too quickly in a turn, the stability control will catch you first, but it does not do so intrusively. At speed on the track, it gently reduces throttle, so gently you usually don't notice it. Or maybe we were just being smoothly cautious. More-confident drivers can turn stability all the way off for a more fluid drive. But you are always in the hand of the Buddha. The power of lightness The LFA performs so well in part because of its unique body structure, which consists of a carbon-fiber-reinforced plastic monocoque with aluminum extrusions front and rear. Combined with an aluminum engine, it is what engineers call "light." The rear-drive LFA is almost 600 pounds lighter than the AWD Nissan GT-R and also is lighter than the Porsche 911 Turbo, the Audi R8 V10 and the Chevrolet Corvette ZR1. Thus the brakes don't have to work as hard. But they work hard nonetheless. On our autobahn top-speed runs earlier in the day, the LFA was so safe and stable that we never felt threatened by anything, not even the pinhead in the Škoda who wandered into our lane to leisurely pass a truck--this was when we were doing about one Euro 50. The 390-millimeter front and 360-millimeter rear ceramic disc brakes barely warmed up as they brought the whole LFA down to the lumbering rate of the moronic Škoda driver. Getting back up to speed, the column-mounted paddles click up through the six-speed ASG gearbox remarkably fast. Shifts can come as quickly as 0.2 second in Sport mode, about as fast as any gearbox made, but they aren't at all brutal. Auto, Normal and Wet modes make up your other shift choices. Each mode has its own programming. You can even select shift speeds, ranging from the 0.2-second blasts to shifts that take a full and leisurely 1 second. The lightweight chassis is connected to the wheels by double wishbones in front and a rear multilink. Tires are Bridgestone 265/35ZR-20s in front and 305/30ZR-20s in the rear. The suspension was not just developed at the Nürburgring, as seemingly everything is nowadays, but during the Nürburgring 24-hour race. The shocks on the production car are the same ones used in the race. When engineers and drivers noticed some slight chassis flex in the races, Tanahashi-san added front and rear crossbraces connected by a latticelike central brace and two more carbon-fiber braces in the front structure. Emphasis on handling All of this worked splendidly on the 'Ring. We had three laps of the thing. Normally, three laps of a racetrack is pitifully few. But normal racetracks are maybe two or three miles long. The Nordschliefe is 13 miles long and has 73 turns. If you do a lap in less than eight minutes, you are hailed as a hero. If you get around it in the same afternoon and don't fly off into the spruce forest, you get respect. We accomplished the latter with dignity and a fair amount of speed. The biggest thing you learn about a car on the Nordschliefe is its transitional handling characteristics--how it feels shifting its weight from one side to the other. In several instances we determined that, with a lesser car, we would have been flying backwards over the skinny guardrail and into the trees. We were able to go fast enough to make this determination because we were following some European hot shoe who apparently was born at this place. On blind corners--and let's face it, they're all blind--he would hammer the throttle, knowing as we assumed that he did that the track didn't end around this or that corner. The stability that Tanahashi described was in evidence at every one of these flingingly fast turns. Only a couple of times did we feel that it was the electronic stability control that saved us from infamy; in the vast majority of the corners; it was that hand-of-the-Buddha thing that kept us out of the weeds. And our own skill, a little. Lap time? We were not timing it, so let's estimate 6:38. Ha ha, just kidding. In skilled hands, we'd estimate that an LFA could get around the Nordschliefe in less than eight minutes. Tanahashi-san said he did not have a time, that he told his engineers to concentrate on driving enjoyment, not lap times. But can't you enjoy a good lap time? The LFA is not as lively to drive at the limit as any of the above mentioned cars, the Ferrari, the Audi R8, the Ford GT, the Porsche 911 and the 911 Turbo, etc. Roll, jounce and rebound are firmly controlled without being harsh. The LFA feels like a shorter, greatly refined and much, much lighter Corvette. Or a lighter, rear-drive GT-R. The LFA isolates only the feel you need and transmits it to you through the wheel and through the seat. Apparently you don't need too much feeling to drive fast and safe. It is an amazing car considering the things it can do and the speeds it can go with more safety and stability than perhaps any road car ever made. You are not taking your life in your hands when you drive this car at the limit. You are in the hand of the Buddha, remember. $300,000 for 1 of 500 But at least one of your hands will have to be on your wallet, since these things are going to cost "in the high 300s," according to Toyota. Lexus will settle on a price closer to when LFA production begins in December 2010. Since each model is custom-made, don't look for these in showrooms. And since the U.S. market will only get between 100 and 200 of the 500 total LFAs ever to be made, don't look for one in every driveway. The 500 cars will be made in the 2011 and 2012 model years. The good news is that the cars are not all sold, far from it, which was at least part of the reason Lexus let us drive one as fast as we did. Chief engineer Tanahashi figures that the LFA has taken up a third of his career--10 years. Lexus says the project began in 2000. What took so long? The official reason is that Tanahashi-san--seeking better a power-to-weight ratio--decided a few years into the project to switch from an aluminum body to that carbon-fiber tub with aluminum extrusions pointing out of it front and rear. But we're guessing the reason might also have had more to do with Toyota/Lexus trying to grapple with the ROI from a $300,000-plus, limited-production car. Plus there's that whole notion of Lexusness. For a division known best for impeccable service and ride isolation, should there really be something in the lineup that can go 204 mph and feel like a wheeled dart? What is the LFA, anyway, the spiritual successor to the SC400? Of course not. You could say it's sort of like a Supra injected with kryptonite. Or you could go farther back and say it's the modern iteration of the 2000GT. But each of those would be a stretch. The LFA is an anomaly in the Lexus lineup, but the fastest, most thrilling anomaly you will ever drive. Whatever it is and wherever it came from--and we're guessing its extraterrestrial--the LFA stands on its own merits as a fully capable supercar in this age brimming with them. 2011 Lexus LFA On Sale: Early 2011 Base Price: Less than $400,000 Drivetrain: 4.8-liter, 554-hp, 354-lb-ft, normally aspirated V10; RWD, six-speed automatic Curb Weight: 3,256 lb 0-62 mph: 3.7 sec Fuel Economy: N/A Tokyo auto show: The new Lexus LFA is one beautiful screamer: AutoWeekMagazine Pretty good reading for Autoweek. That price though, I dunno about that. Good thing production is limited. M
Even with impressive engine sounds, limited production and impressives specs...can Lexus really justify this price to Millionaires who also have a choice of Ferrari, SLS and McLaren. It may sell out and be a big winner "image" wise for Lexus, but I highly doubt it. Especially if the SLS is sold for $250k. Brand and history means everything in this catagory.
Lexus priced it wrong; it should've been in the SLS ballpark; some figures are being tossed around : 350k, 500k, IMO all too much when there are cars that offer just as much for much less.
Neither can I. It's fugly Merc 1. :eusa_doh: Ok I understand fellas here being impressed by the specs. But C'MON just look at that thing. There's no design finesse at all.
^^^LOL. Yeah its a combo of specs and shock for me. I can't believe that Lexus has finally come up with something so hot. The look is not Aston-Martin beautiful by a long shot, but it isn't ugly as hell either IMO that is. Its one of those functional designs, like the Enzo was. If can like the Panamera based on interior and performance, not its design then I can accept this I guess. I know this goes against all my self-imposed rules about cars having to be gorgeous, but I can't help it right now. Then again the Jaguar XJ is still ugly no matter what. M
What I think makes it expensive is the extensive use of CF, that's why the SLR is so much more expensive than the SLS. In the press release they said that Lexus is losing money after each one they're producing. For only 500 units, I think it's fair. What I think Lexus should've done was introduce a rival for the GTR at that price range to build the F range and image. Then they could release the LFA and be able to charge that much. But the LFA has been in development so long (since 2000?), that it wasn't gonna wait any longer. What a sound. It rivals that of the Italians indeed.
The high price is mostly due to the rather limited production of 500 cars meaning that Lexus have to jack up the price in order to recoup some of the high development costs. If they had decided to build 2000 per year then I'm sure the price would have come down to the level of the SLS(170k) or F458(230k) -- which brings me to the question of why Toyota have decided to milk this one and instead opted for a tiny production of just 500 units. And the fact that entire production hasn't been sold out is worrying. Alfa sold out the 8C in a matter of minutes and Ferrari have had no problems selling out most of their new models.
Marcus, I'm with you man. I'm completely and thoroughly intrigued by this car. It's not beautiful - not by some margin - and yet, it's a very engaging design. I find the LFA interesting to look at in the nicest possible way. This is a car for the discerning rich folk out there; people who've had their fill of the regular supercar munch bunch. These people are as much appreciative of a unique and thrilling driving experience as they are of absolute performance credentials. Bizarrely, as it's a Lexus, the LFA will bring a new, dynamic driving experience to the well-heeled - the design and specifications speak for themselves. Here's a 1575 kg car with a unique front-mid mounted V10 (72 degrees, 9000 rpm) that features incredible throttle response, coupled to a transaxle sequential gearbox (bucking the DSG trend). There just isn't anything else out there like it. Clearly, the LFA is not about performance absolutes but rather an absolutely unique and thrilling driving experience. I am sure that journos will be gushing superlatives about this predictably epic drive. For sure, it's a lot of money for the car - on paper it doesn't seem to make a viable value proposition when you consider that you could have an SLS and a GTR for that kind of money. But Lexus ought not to be aiming the LFA at one-time supercar owners I feel. Instead, out there are 500 supercar afficionados who will take to the LFA like ducks to water because of how fantastic it's going to be to drive.
I think the LFA design and engineering team went down the wrong road with the single-clutch transaxle when the entire supercar world has moved on to the double-clutch transmission. It is a little like Airbus (Lexus) coming out with the aluminium-fuselage A330-Lite to try to compete with Boeing's (everyone except Lexus) composite-fuselage 787 Dreamliner. The LFA's single-clutch transaxle just doesn't cut the mustard today. There is nothing Lexus can do now with the single-clutch transaxle. The only thing Lexus can do now is to spend the next 12 months working on the transaxle to improve it to the point where it delivers shift quality, speed, smoothness, that have not been thought possible for a single-clutch transaxle. Personally, I think the ideal characteristic is that of the loading action of a bolt-action rifle. Chick Chick BOOM!! The low speed shift quality and creeping characteristics are my main concerns. Lexus should get help from the Toyota F1 transmission engineers on this.
I wonder if Lexuswould make a special version of the current IS-F with this V10 Screamer. Probably badge the Lexus FFS
For all you intrigued by the design but can't figure out why... You secretly loved the Supra, and since this has a slight look of it, you love this car. Also, this car's design is VERY Japanese. Don't know how and don't know why, but it just is.
I think you're right Wunderkind but Ferrari were lauded for the shift speed and smoothness of the F1-shift sequential box in the Scuderia, so, perhaps Lexus' protracted R & D program has delivered a transmission with an acceptably broad operating envelope for the kind of car in question.
That's what got me thinking. The Ferrari system in the Scuderia can shift cogs at a barely-believable 60milliseconds. The LFA's transaxle takes 200ms in comparison. Also, in the Edmunds article, the LFA project manager - Mr Tanahashi said he and his team tried the Borg-Warner dual-clutch gearbox but he didn't like it. Whereas, in another publication, Mr Tanahashi reportedly said no double-clutch gearbox today can handle the 9000rpm of the LFA's V10 engine. I think Mr Tanahashi is backtracking..........................Oooops, we stuffed up. To me at least, a dual-clutch gearbox would have done much much more for the LFA's image from both marketing and technical perspective.
^ Nicely made point. Oh and maybe Mr Tanahashi needs to have a look at Ferrari's new dual-clutch gearbox in the 458. It can handle 9000 rpm. Maybe a dual clutch gearbox was simply a move to far for the LFA?
Yes, a double clutch transmission will be quite a bit heavier than a simpler single clutch transmission. I remember a Ferrari executive saying the Ferrari/Getrag double clutch transmission is some 55-65 kilograms heavier than the F1 single clutch transmission. I think the Lexus design team was probably too obssessed with achieving a light-weight design that they finalised the engine/drivetrain design when the LFA was still going to be built in aluminium. The LFA only became a carbon car after they realised aluminium was not going to be light enough. I think if the LFA was designed and engineered as a carbon car from the very outset, it would have had a double clutch transmission.
Wow... I don't know what I am more impressed by. The impeccable quality, fit and finish or the fact that Lexus has finally built something desirable. :bowdown:
Hmph. Very interesting thoughts to ponder, Wunderkind. I learnt from this, thanks... I'm always impressed with your level of knowledge.
