Discussion in 'Internal Combustion' started by Merc1, Jun 1, 2009.
^:t-hihi: That's true too...
Another victory for the S-Class, amazing!
The f/l version will do even better.
Exactly! Amazing the see the old (pre-facelift) win over the newer models.
Its not the first time something like this happen. Here are few more examples.
- There were one test the brand new E-class lost to a 5-series.
- 3-series are still winning tests despite being the oldest car.
- SL still win some tests again newer cars.
When you say facelifted S-class will do better. What do you guys mean with it?
A facelift is just minor updates, its not a completly new car we talking about.
It is mostly psychological
Oh of course the 3 series will win. Matter of fact if it was up to Car and Driver the 1990 3 series would beat the 2009 C-class.
Thanksfully Motortrend had the BALLS to rate the G35 over the 3 series. They weren't as blinded by symbols as some other folks out there.
And No...I understand that it is not always favortism, but in some cases it is. Believe it or not there are better cars out there (IMO) especially after driving it.
But I understand your point! In terms of styling the S-class (Pre-facelift) looks outdated compared to the other two models. Not to mention there are a few more goodies on the Face-lift S-class that might have had "a little" weight on the results. Not that it would have a major affect.
Depends on what is actually changed. The new S-class got an updated grill, fog lights, side mirrors and rear lights. The interior features more wood and a few new technological goodies. It's not a complete change, but enough for someone to notice the difference to the point of being "impressed".
On the other hand some cars make very minor changes. Matter of fact that could be said about the Face-lift GL. There wasn't nearly as many changes in that other then the fog-lights and a few very minor details.
I think Mercedes-Benz wanted to stay ahead of the game and with the new 7 series and the A8 coming in a few months it had to keep it's eye on the prize. Especially with the drop in the current S-class sales due to the economy/recession.
LoL when a BMw wins a test, then its all wrong. When a Benz win its alright. LoL you guys. There are more comparisons than just C&D that prefer a 3-series over the competition. Dont forget, E90 is also the best selling car in the segment, just like S-class is.
Yes, I never care to see the S-class lose anything. By my standards nothing on earth can touch it (especially the S65 AMG, which has no direct competitior). On the other hand, if it were to lose to a 750il right now I could understand because it's a newer model and probably a little faster then the S550.
On the other hand I have seen plenty of BS comparisons with the 3 series. Yes, some of the comparison it won fair and share.
Then again I have read several articles where they are totally impress with another car (G37 etc.) and it beats it in several catagories then in the end your read a DUMB statement at the end like this -
" The G37 performs great, the pricing is fantastic and it does everything well...But we can't let go of the 3 series"
Now that is the kind of foolishness that I have seen several times with 3 series comparisons and that is what irritates me. It can be the best seller all it wants I know I will NEVER buy it. If an author of a comparison explains why is picking the 3 over other cars and gives substantial reason then it's fine. I have seen some do just that, but others same s*** different day.
And yes, I'm sure some do it with the S-class comparisons as well, but not as bad as the 3 series.
But here's the thing, the S-class is the daddy and benchmark in the class. No doubt. (Just the way the M3 is in it's class.) All want's to beat it, some have something or a couple of things that they do better than the daddy but as a package, it is nigh on unbeatable - they defined the segment for crying out loud! That leads us to the next question; should anyone try to replicate, down to the last feature, the benchmark? No, you should not, not if you are not Chinese. You should try to do somethig that is within the segment well enough so that it could attract the same buyers, but you will never get the all. You will only get those that are looking for something just a little bit different from what defined the segment. Because no one will make a better S-class than Mercedes does.
Everyone will have to take the definition of the segment and try to find some unexploited twist or aspect. BMW har tried with the driving dynamics. It has worked out well, but traditionalists will have a hard time understanding why one would need to have a car like this drive like that.
Good post, doc.
I especially like this part:
Wow, interesting the 7 got 3rd, I would have initially thought 1st or 2nd at least.
I love the new 7, I think it's a great step in Automotive design, as it goes back to what really makes Luxury cars nice IMO: Elegance, smooth & coherent beauty, and understated yet sharp and just aggressive enough, it will age better than the W221 I will bet.
I do think the front of it is a bit weak, in comparison with the rest of the car.
Interior wise, when gazing by those Pics, the Audi has a very fancy look with all the wood, but it looks too fussy and busy, and the design is a bit unnatractively laid out IMO. The Bimmers looks the best I think, but as usual, its materials, coddling, and build quality doesn't match the M-B's. The S's looks too plain and cold for my tastes, with too many flat, non-wood surfaces, but the F/L helps with that.
Exterior wise, IMO Audi has a great formula for making a nice front end, almost unmatchable IMO, and the S I've always loved some, and disliked some when it comes to its design. Right now I'd give it to the 7 overall.
The S is hard to dethrone though, as much as I love the new 7, if I were gonna spend $80K+ on one of these cars, I almost feel like it has to be an M-B, that may be unfair, but it just shows how well M-B has done historically with their high-end models, and how much affect on our brains it has had.
Anyway, those are my thoughts.
You're absolutely right. The full size luxury segment will always belong to Mercedes. BMW has the 3 series, the X3, and the 1 series as its most revered cars, and Mercedes has the S, E, and SL. The hi-class full size segment will always have the S-class sitting on its throne. I just can't understand why the Bimmer got last...:t-hands:
Agreed. I think M-B is most known (Sedan wise at least) for its S-Class, with the E trailing very slightly behind it. And BMW for its 3-Series models (Coupe included). Also, M-B for its SL of course.
I think the closest battle in the sedans between the two usually goes between the 5'er and E-Class though, as it seems they tend to fight tooth and nail in comparison to how the 3 usually gets the bench-mark handily over the C, and the S over the 7, etc.
Excactly. The E and 5er are the closest, with MB winning out on luxury and comfort and the bimmer winning out on performance/handling etc.
Yeah, I think the 5 VS E comparo is the best testament to what both manufacturers offer over the other, and IMO they both uphold the brands trademarks to a 'T'.
All this is true except the part about the X3 and 1-Series being "revered", they aren't in the least. BMW's talent is at the 3-Series and 5-Series.....and to a degree the X5.
I agree with you on your opinion regarding X3 and 1er. Neither car really did bring anything but premium pricing* to their respective segments. And, after all, they are first generation attempts.
The 7er, is of course, a 5th or 6th (can't recall exactly) generation model and it has the experience of dealing with the S-Klasse - the clear and present market leader - for decades now. Barring the slightly jarring DRG, the new 7er is a great looker and a fabulously well engineered piece of kit. If I were a BMW fan, I'd be equally miffed at this kick-in-the-teeth result for the 7er. I feel that the 7er is a far better car than it is being given credit for in this thread.
*Now, 1er fans, don't go out shooting me down in flames because I disregarded rear-wheel drive and BMW dynamics - that's another debate altogether in a hatchback thread elsewhere.
I always thought you were????
Let's just say I'm a fan of many brands of cars. I'm more of a fan of individual cars that inspire me than being an outright brand fan. True, I do have a soft spot for many a BMW but it's not like I think that everything they do turns to magic.
I'm with you on this one. There are certain qualities in cars that I want and like. These demands have previously often been met by BMW. But not always.