Discussion in 'The BMW Lounge' started by EnI, Jun 18, 2009.
Now how do I get my foot in the door, in say 2012?
The end of Joy ... hopefully????
Interone ad agency wins 2012 BMW 3 Series marketing campaign
Hopefully. I cringe everytime I hear the word "joy". :eusa_doh:
No, not the end of JOY. Since we introduced JOY we have had an upturn of new first-time customers to BMW mainly because of "JOY" campaigns that have featured within the new BMW X1 which is one vehicle that has brought customers to the BMW brand for the first time.
JOY... stays for now.
There will always be first timers regardless of that campaign, but I hope the "JOY" status stays after their first dealer visit
Do marketing know how many people were PUT OFF by the "Joy" commercial? Sales may have been even bigger.
Yup, with the help of the new FWD models!
Sorry, but I couldn't resist
Do you really think that just a commercial is a reason not to buy a car? Yes, it can attract new customers, but put them off? Why?
I am surpriced that someone would refuse to buy a car, not because he found one that is better, but because of a stupid series of commercials?
Thank you Giannis for putting a little bit of perspective into this thread.
If anything my post was trying to highlight how nobody knows really what the adverts do for sales. I don't think marketing can make such bold claims as "......new first-time customers to BMW mainly because of "JOY" campaigns....".
How on earth does anybody know why somebody buys a BMW? Surveys? People say one thing when they mean another. On the record somebody might buy a BMW "because they are really pushing the 'Green' thing." Secretly it could be because their next door neighbours just bought one and they want to "keep up with the Jones'".
And if the advert can attract customers because of a particular theme, "Joy" in this case, why can it not put them off? I think it sure can. I'm not talking about car enthusiasts like you or I. I'm talking about the vast majority of car buyers. The ones who buy into a particular "image", even if it's based on fallacies. Somebody sat on their sofa at home watching the "Joy" commercial thinking, "Joy is what? What happened to the ultimate driving machine?"
Yes, I know "The ultimate driving machine" is still used to some extent, but the average viewer doesn't know that. All they see is "joy" this, "joy" that. And to me it comes across as wishy washy and wet.
Hmm, very interesting reply there, Betty!
First of all, even though I am not a marketing guy, nor know anything about it, I strongly believe, that when it comes to advertising a certain product or building a brand image, these guys really know their business. So, I guess they know what an advertisement does to sales.
As for people that wonder what happend to the old "ultimate driving machine" commercial: That was mainly targeting (us) driving enthusiasts. BMW's target group has now grown much bigger, since all those new core models, like the X series and the 5GT. And since the target group has grown bigger and now the product range includes models that driving pleasure is not only unique selling point, a new commercial is needed. A new commercial that can show all those unique selling points, all those new BMW's core values, all those new characteristics (due to the expansion of the line-up) [*].
It is an undeniable fact that the "ultimate driving maching" and the "sheer driving pleasure" commercial only focused on the driving characteristics of the BMWs of that time. Sadly, you can't market the X1 or the 5GT using those commercials. Heck, you can't even market a 320d ED using those. BMW needed a new commercial that can market everything BMW NOW stands for and this is not only driving pleasure.
So, does JOY put people off, or not? If, by putting people off, you mean that the JOY results in a number of people not buying a BMW, then I strongly disagree. Even the average viewer, the guy lying on the sofa, remembers the "ultimate driving machine" commercial, or can see the driving entusiasm in the JOY campaign. BMW marketing guys are not that stupid to completely erase the driving joy from their commercials. Yes, BMW is loosing it's strong advantage when it comes to driving dynamics, but they can still sell it. So they have to advertise it.
On the other hand, the average driving enthusiast, like you and me, indeed we DO wonder what the F happend to the "ultimate driving machine" commercials. We ask ourselfs if BMW still makes proper cars or has shifted it's focus to making SUVs and lifestyle hybrids. When it comes to driving enthusiasts, they will think twice before they buy their BMW now (in the past enthusiasts bought BMWs without even thinking of it), because driving joy is not the numbe one priority this days. The sad (?) truth, though, is that for every driving entusiast that refrains from buying a BMW, the JOY campaign attracts 10 new customers that 5 years ago the thought of buying a BMW wouldn't even cross their mind.
[*] Today I managed to get an E90 for a two hour test drive. So, I took it to a meeting with two very close friends of mine. One with an E46 and one with an E36. And we three drove all three cars back to back to see how the 3er has evolved the last 20 years. And what we all realised was shocking. In my opinion, and everyone feel free to prove me wrong, is that BMW's focus, since the last generation of cars, is not in driving dynamics. This is not their strong USP at the momment. They are working on attracting all kind of customers, that shop for almost every type of car. Think of the latest completely new models by BMW. They showed new types of SUVS, most of them, lifestyle SUVS (X1 and X6) and new type of "this thing is supposed to be drive by a chauffer and not a driving enthusiast" car which is the 5GT. Where are the light and sporty cars that BMW was once known for? I asked 4 of my collegues at work today, what is the first BMW model that comes to their model. Two of them said X5, one of them said 1er (because he owns one) and the last one said 3er. I find that alarming.
All I read all day is stories about new urban or not SUVs, new vehicles to feel the newly discovered niches, new FWD BMWs, new electric diesel things. I didn't read anywhere that they will make the new 3er more sporty that it now is. Because the E90 is not as sharp as the E46 and not as brutal as the E36. And definitely not as entertaining as these two.
Anyway, we better focus on our beloved (yes, I hate it, too) JOY campaign.
But I fail to see how people can associate "joy" with driving a 320ED either. Efficient, yes. Joy, no.
The problem I have with joy, apart from it just being a pathetic and limp sounding word, not something I associate with cars never mind BMW's, is that it's so vague. It doesn't tell me anything about BMW. "Ultimate driving machine" tells me, even if you don't believe it, is BMW are striving to make the driving experience rewarding. "Efficient Dynamics" instills economy combined with sportiness. I can see that.
"Joy"? It sounds really amateur to me. But hey, that's just my opinion. I'm not trying to convince anybody.
M-B learnt the lesson and went back to the core of how people associate with the brand, Audi's never changed their winning slogan. JOY will make good marketing for a brand like SMART or even MINI
Bold part: Com'on Betty, it's easy. It's the joy of driving a car with a BMW badge on it, which is a better badge than the Jones'es Vectra, and at the same time, it's much more economical than your Hyundai i10 city car. That's joy for those who are the potential customers of the 320ED
As for the word joy. I don't know how strange or normal this word sounds in english, since this is not my mother language, nor am I a master in using this language. But, in any case, the "ultimate driving machine" is/was a very bold statement, and delivered a very strong and clear message. The driving experience you get from this car is magnificent. Period.
Now this joy thing is quite confusing to many, and quite generic in my opinion. But if you can describe BMW with the word joy these days, then it's a complete failure in my book. If BMW was all about sheer driving pleasure a few years ago, then definitely it went down a few levels, to become just joy. At least for me, it used to be passion, crazyness, excitement. Raw driving emotions. And all those from a high volume selling family car or small roadster. It's incredible how much driving pleasure you could get from a simple family sedan like the E36 320i for example. You can get even half as much driving pleasure for a today's 320i. Though it's both a good and a bad thing, which is a topic that has been discussed many times in the past.
You can have joy with an X1 or an X5. But with an E92 you should really get more than just a joy!
PS. To be honest, now that I read what I wrote in this post and those before this one, I sound like an old man complaining all the time. But I'm neither old, nor complaining. I just do not agree with this route that BMW's evolution is taking.
Why can't we just let this thread and the "joy" campaign fade into the sunset?:t-hands:
I guess this has been mentioned before, but the Joy campaign seems to be a case of 'Lost in Translation'. The German term for joy, 'Freude', works quite well. BMW has been using the claim "Aus Freude am Fahren" for ages, it's the equivalent to "Sheer Driving Pleasure". If people read the new German ads (Freude ist... - Joy is...) they most certainly also remember the old slogan and thus remember 'Yeah, sheer driving pleasure is what they stood for and still claim to do'). That way, BMW can reach a larger audience without compromising their old claim. This doesn't seem to work for the English claims. The question is why BMW chose to use a different translation for the German 'Freude' and took Joy instead of Pleasure. I guess they wanted it to be short and to the point, so they went for Joy. IMO, that was a mistake. Sure, 'The ultimate driving machine' and 'Sheer driving pleasure' are still around, but -- like I said -- BMW seems to lose the focus on their cars' handling and sportiness in their ads. In other words, this campaign is brilliant in the German version, but mediocre in the English one.
One word: Weight. For example, an E46 318i is a light, nimble and moderately quick car. A E9x 318i is larger, heavier, softer and quite a bit slower. There's just less connection between the driver and the car. The weight thing is inevitable for any car manufacturer, the softer ride is something done intentionally to satisfy a larger customer base. It's not like you can't get a thrilling 3-series today, it's just that you have to do quite some (more) things in order to get it, like ordering a bigger engine or the sports suspension / M pack. Even then, you'd have a bigger car which is a tad less tossable.
After purchasing my first BMW just over a month ago, Joy to me is walking out the front door on a cold winter morning not looking forward to work, yet instantly grinning from ear-to-ear when I see a BMW sitting there and knowing that it's mine and that I'm gonna enjoy driving it!
I think Betty mentioned it a few months ago in a different thread... about how a special car makes you want to take a second look as you walk away from it!
So for me, BMW isn't just about 'Sheer Driving Pleasure' or 'The Ultimate Driving Machine' ... it's also about the ownership experience. The joy and pride of knowing you own it, the beauty of it after you've spent a good part of your Sunday afternoon washing and waxing the car...and of course the joy of sitting in the driver's seat and pressing that 'Start/Stop' button to bring the car to life!
Unlike the previous slogans that exclusively focused on the driving experience of a BMW, ..the JOY campaign is more about the ownership experience.
Maybe they could have chosen a better word than 'joy'... or even used a series of words that communicate excitement, enjoyment and thrill.
Personally, if someone asked me to describe the ownership and driving experience of a BMW, I'd simply reply "Ohh yeah!"
Thanks for the explanation. That does make it a bit easier to understand how they arrived at "joy". Words getting lost in translation is certainly something global businesses have to be careful of. As a native English speaker, there are some foreign words which sound fantasticly exotic, yet in their own language are very mundane. "Quattroporte" for example. Sounds great, which helps you forget it just means "four door". "Vorsprung Durch Technik" is very well known in the UK, yet I would hazzard a guess that only 1% actually know what it means. But they know it's associated with Audi, and in their mind it triggers a feeling of a solid, quality, German product.
The slogan "Sheer Driving Pleasure" works for me. Almost as much as "Ultimate Driving Machine".
This is why, joy is so very wrong for BMW. Here is an old and modern connection with joy...
Dailymotion - pub Lacoste Joy Of Pink 2010 - une vidéo Art et Création
The Joy Of Living With Fragrance (Eng.) on Vimeo
The joy campainge is too simliar to the earlier Jaguar "gourgeous" ad. Its as if "joy" has been swapped for "goegeous".
Joy for BMW is copy cat, cheap, limp and too weak for the brand. Joy has been used and used before and its worn out.
I agree with Betty.
Quite interesting discussion so far. Personally - I was uncertain what to think about the new campaign at the beginning. As we were shown the new campaign for the first time, it was a bit like Betty said: For me as a car enthusiast it was too unspecific, too less talk about specific product substance like the campaigns before. After having heared a lot about the intentions behind the shift, I thought, uhm, well, these guys should know their business better...
Although I hate to accept that the vast majority of (BMW) customers is buying a car based on design and image and maybe economical reasons (and not engine or handling), it is apparently a fact (at least it was told to me). If you take this into consideration in conjunction with shocking survey results like "the majority of 1 series buyers has absolutely NO clue whether they are driving FWD/AWD/RWD" you obviously have to think about how to reach your now very extended clientele of about 1,5 million per year.... Maybe "JOY" works for this new BMW fan base?
What I am curious about is:
1. Does this general shift or broadening of the customer base have any effect in loosing some of the BMW core clientele (the one that adore handling/engines) in the long run for BMW? I mean - most of the current BMW still have such great handling potential that it is hard to max out for unskilled drivers (apart from the fact that it is not permitted on public roads) anyway. So is there actually a reason for the core clientele to turn away? And where should they turn to?
2. If there is (or will be) such a turn away of hard core fans - will it do any severe harm to BMW? I mean loosing one hard core fan and winning two new fans instead does not look like a bad thing.... except when these hard core fans turn out to be THE evangelists that promote the brand and act as very important multipliers that are needed in the long run....
For someone like me whose native language is English, "Joy" is incredibly weak. It's waffy and limp-wristed.
These days, when an English-speaking person says "Oh Joy!" it's invariably in a sarcastic context to express how positively f@cked off one is with a situation.
The Joy Campaign is weak and totally uncompelling. For me.