BMW and the M...past, present, and future, what does it mean to you.

Discussion in 'The BMW Lounge' started by hoffmeister_fan, Aug 7, 2009.

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  1. AdvEvo Active Member

    thank you for youre post.

    Turbo at bmw are certainly not the best engines. And do not try to use it on track.

    E36 325i engine you can drive it all day on track.
    E36 M3 engine 3.0 is the best you can drive it all day on track.
    130i 3.0 engine you can drive it all day on track
    M3 V8 engine the same.

    Turbo s are breaking down. Give problems. What the hell do i want with an engine what will break down and give problems. AND LAG
    AdvEvo, Aug 7, 2009
    #21

  2. chonkoa Well-Known Member

    Sounds like emotional remarks.
    chonkoa, Aug 7, 2009
    #22

  3. martinbo Global Moderator / Editor

    You forgot to mention limp-mode too.
    martinbo, Aug 7, 2009
    #23
    • Like Like x 2

  4. dr Dunkel Global Moderator

    Cars are very much about emotions, just as they are about functionality.
    dr Dunkel, Aug 7, 2009
    #24

  5. martinbo Global Moderator / Editor

    Or an objective opinion based on the comments made by influential motoring publications. It all depends on your point of view.

    Yes, I too have read the X6M article in EVO and I do remember them saying that the V8 sounds anodyne and like a four cylinder! Worrying. And, to add to that, the handling revealed none of the "miraculous" improvements that M engineers are usually able to achieve from previous, traditional M cars such as the M3 and M5.
    martinbo, Aug 7, 2009
    #25

  6. LaArtist Premium Member

    Lol man i know you wont belive me...
    But everytime you google this bike..you get pics of the race bike..
    And i wanted to show the 2 diffrent stupid looking headlights..
    And this was really the ONLY head on picture..and that was the only colour..

    But yes..it would be kickass to see the 4 wheel cousin of that bike..
    But with matching headlights for gods sake!!!:D
    LaArtist, Aug 7, 2009
    #26

  7. dr Dunkel Global Moderator

    Ahh, but the odd circular shape here and there is a trademark of the range topping vehicles:

    [IMG]

    :D
    dr Dunkel, Aug 7, 2009
    #27

  8. bum-man Well-Known Member

    I can't help but think this is why they updated the engine so quickly with the new turbo. Perhaps an inherent problem they cannot get around, demand for the new engine. :D
    bum-man, Aug 7, 2009
    #28
    • Like Like x 4

  9. martinbo Global Moderator / Editor

    ^ Yes, you're referring to the sudden move from a twin-turbo layout to a single "twin-power" twin-scroll unit? Just like that. Hmmm... suspect, I admit.
    martinbo, Aug 7, 2009
    #29
    • Like Like x 2

  10. LaArtist Premium Member

    No M6 CSL no M3 CSL..
    No M1.. No super car..
    No Z4 M
    No GT.. not even a M7 which would be better..

    Instead 2 SUV´s .. and i guess the next project is the M5..and after that M3..

    thank god those 2 remain.. and i know ile get flamed for this..but somehow i feel the new M3 isnt the MIGHTY bitchslap to the competition the previous one was..
    It seem abit tamer.. in both looks and rest..:t-hands:
    On top of that i dont see the next M5 having a new engine made from scratch..
    I think they will evolve the V10 or the V8...


    So all that adds up to a worrying future..
    LaArtist, Aug 7, 2009
    #30

  11. LaArtist Premium Member

    That car is so bad ass:):bowdown:
    LaArtist, Aug 7, 2009
    #31

  12. coolraoul Well-Known Member

    I think it's too early to judge.
    The signs may not be encouraging (lack of CSL versions or roadster), the XM may be disappointing...

    For me, it's the next M5 that will really show if M is endangered or not. If it's a glorified turbo-550i, then M is going a bad route.

    If it's a badass sporty sedan that drives and goes like hell, and hides its turbo under an orgy of decibels, then all is fine despite the end of the "philosophy" of high-revv and co.
    coolraoul, Aug 7, 2009
    #32
    • Like Like x 2

  13. HighestOfHigh Global Moderator

    Artist, I never knew you cared so much for BMW. Thought you were a Benz loyalist. ;)

    Well as far as the CSL, I guess I would have to be an actual fan of the cars to really care about it.

    Yes, I do believe M should have come up with a Super Car by now and I wish they would stop giving excuses why they can't or that BS logic they use.

    Hmm...Didn't know they weren't doing a Z4 M. Of course the new one is so "lady-like" I don't think it would look good as a M. But I understand your point.

    Lastly...YES, I do believe that M should have given us an M7 by now. I think there so focus on "Oh where not going to be like Mercedes-Benz". The 7 series is BMW's flagship and it should have everything the lowers models have and more.

    Now will all this hurt the future of M.....I don't know. I would say no depending on how many people buy BMW's M that are not extreme fans like the ones in this forum. Some people will buy a car just because it looks nice and is more powerful. Then you have the hard core BMW fans that are more worried about the car being light weight, sporty (regardless of lack of comfort), and turning corners fast with extreme unecessary loud noises. Then again I blame BMW for feeding their fans so much hope that they aren't even willing to see a change from time to time.
    HighestOfHigh, Aug 7, 2009
    #33

  14. bum-man Well-Known Member

    Right, that's the one I was thinking of. Now that I'm on this subject I wonder why BMW is doing a three stage system for their performance diesel when this kind of tech is now available to them.
    bum-man, Aug 7, 2009
    #34

  15. AdvEvo Active Member

    We do not need M supercars and we do not need an M7. X5 and X6 M are pointless.

    Leave the supercars to pagani ferrari etc.

    Bmw stands for fast agile sedans and coupe even fast hatchbacks.
    AdvEvo, Aug 7, 2009
    #35
    • Like Like x 4

  16. HighestOfHigh Global Moderator

    Honestly, we don't "need" any of them including the M3 and M5...same goes for the AMGs. With these types of cars, it is all a matter of "wants". So just as bad as you may "want" and "proper" M3, someone else might want a "proper" X6 M. So who decides which customer deserves their choice more? BMW does! It is unfortunate that they don't have the M7, but just because they didn't make one doesn't mean it's pointless or serves no purpose.
    HighestOfHigh, Aug 7, 2009
    #36

  17. AdvEvo Active Member

    Give me a reason why you should make an M7 besides a 760i

    in my opinion ///M means Motorsport. I know lately it looks more on ///M Marketing.

    ///Motorsport means track worthy. Drive all day long on the nurburgring like the ring taxi.
    ///Motorsport means i can put a helmet on my head and drive my ass off on track if i want to and go home in the same car.

    If they see me comming in an M7 and put a helmet on they are laughing same goes if i join a trackday with a 2200kg X5M.

    ///Motorsport has lost it completly so i would not be much suprised if they make an M7. They already made a X5M and X6M too no one can spook me anymore at ///M

    But it s about time ///M gets a man on the big seat like gerhard richter. A man with Motorsport blood. After richter everything went bad at Motorsport.

    The main problem is money.

    BMW should make money out off their normal line up. And they should use ///Motorsport for image makers. 1 series ///M hatch with 6 cil screamer. M3 V8 CSL, M5 sedan. And that s it. no cabrio s etc no hairdressers cars. Just plain motorsport image makers which are useable at any track all day long. Maybe they are not giving much profit but they give bmw the credit it needs. Win on sunday sell on monday. Not everybody can buy ///M but it shows which bmw is capeable off. People buy 116i because they see the 1 serie hatch ///M on racetracks they have the feel with it.
    AdvEvo, Aug 7, 2009
    #37
    • Like Like x 6

  18. codinca_valentin Member

    Hello everybody,

    Motorsport Gmbh created memorable cars that will be always reffered to as symbols of true sport cars:
    M1
    M3 E30 sport evolution
    M3 E46
    M3 CSL E46
    M5 E39
    M3 E90

    The present is a little worrying as the division seems not to focus on pure driving pleasure, instead offering electronic gadgets that are not useful.
    I would like to give 2 examples:
    - M power button - we want the maximum available all the time, because downsizing the power of the engine doesn't help fuel economy;
    - multiple settings of the gear change speeds (for the M5 and M6) - why not just one, but good ? what is the difference between the first setting and the fourth, 0.000001 milisec ? BMW should stick to manual gearboxes, the classic way. This way, they will be unique in the industry and be well apreciated by the true enthusiats like us.

    Fot the future, there is hope, but it hurts to see cars like M3 E90 CSL cancelled.
    In my opinion, BMW should have given the top position of the M division to Gerhart Richter, instead of giving it to a guy who was responsible for the Mini, with all due respect for the succes of Mini.

    The X6 and X5 M do not fit exactly with in M philosophy, but I think this V8 bi-turbo engine will be installed on the next M5, so I'm waiting with interest the reviews about these cars, hoping that the engine will not dissapoint.

    In the end, I'm happy that someone thought to make such a post and that so many people reacted to it. As a tribute to the Motorsport division and their fans, here are the scans of the Evo article from last year, about the M cars (courtesy of butcky from BMW zone.ro).
    Enjoy!

    http://img18.imageshack.us/i/picturesdk.jpg/
    http://img38.imageshack.us/i/picture001gsh.jpg/
    http://img38.imageshack.us/i/picture002wow.jpg/
    http://img142.imageshack.us/i/picture003udp.jpg/
    http://img300.imageshack.us/i/picture004owk.jpg/
    http://img38.imageshack.us/i/picture005fkg.jpg/
    http://img22.imageshack.us/i/picture006bwv.jpg/
    http://img142.imageshack.us/i/picture007eom.jpg/
    http://img195.imageshack.us/i/picture008elw.jpg/
    http://img16.imageshack.us/i/picture009sny.jpg/
    http://img26.imageshack.us/i/picture010dqp.jpg/
    http://img14.imageshack.us/i/picture011wag.jpg/
    http://img8.imageshack.us/i/picture012fjd.jpg/
    http://img136.imageshack.us/i/picture013soo.jpg/
    http://img14.imageshack.us/i/picture014mbz.jpg/
    http://img40.imageshack.us/i/picture015grg.jpg/
    http://img8.imageshack.us/i/picture016xvlcxc.jpg/
    http://img40.imageshack.us/i/picture017dhg.jpg/
    http://img26.imageshack.us/i/picture018gqj.jpg/
    http://img196.imageshack.us/i/picture019b.jpg/
    http://img199.imageshack.us/i/picture020bmj.jpg/
    http://img194.imageshack.us/i/picture021j.jpg/
    http://img291.imageshack.us/i/picture022p.jpg/
    http://img8.imageshack.us/i/picture023roq.jpg/
    http://img517.imageshack.us/i/picture024w.jpg/
    http://img11.imageshack.us/i/picture025qpe.jpg/
    codinca_valentin, Aug 7, 2009
    #38
    • Like Like x 8

  19. Cashmere Well-Known Member

    Almost everything that can be said pertaining to this topic has been said. Infact its been battered to death here at GCF particularly over the last 18 months.

    All we can do now is wait. Wait and see how well the X twins are received, but more particularly to see what becomes of the next gen M5. IMO, that is going to be the make-or-break car from M.
    Cashmere, Aug 7, 2009
    #39
    • Like Like x 2

  20. dr Dunkel Global Moderator

    We will wait. If the M5 is anything at all like the quasi M-cars (X5"M" and X6"M") we will know that the wait is in vain...
    dr Dunkel, Aug 7, 2009
    #40
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