I`ve noticed that for sometime now. There are a lot of E55 owners on that site, thay seem to have a mind set thats stuck on how the E55 feels. I`m waiting for more tests to come in, I`ll post them there just to see the reactions.
Well of course Roberto I know who and what Porsche is, but that little blurb you posted really says what I've been saying all along, that the project was so specialized that MB needed a outsider builder to carry out the project. Yes the car was brilliant on the road due to Porsche, but from a build quality aspect the W124 was already indestructable to Porsche had very little to do with that. The 500E was no different from the 400E or 300E in that regard. The only thing Porsche did was assemble the things MB had already laid out for them and Porsche was better able to assemble the entire car because the 500E had bigger fenders and other smaller details that would made it very expensive to build it on the "regular" E-Class line. M
MB sure has come a long way. The 1994 E500 (it`s last year of production) had *315hp. The E63 has *507hp (*american versions) thats a 192hp increase, amazing!
That is quite interesting.. 192hp in 12 years! Here's the American horsepower figures for the four M5's: E28 (1985): 256hp E34 (1989): 315hp (60hp increase in 4 years) E39 (1999): 400hp (146hp increase in 14 years) E60 (2005): 500hp (244hp increase in 20 years) (Note: American dates and horespower figures)
Those are some interesting figures Beemer Boi! I think it was around 1994-95 when this power war started. BMW leaped the E500 with the 340hp E34 M5 Just_me mentioned. MB and BMW have been at war ever since, then Audi Jumped in with a hi-powered RS6 later on..
In reading this comparo (finally got my copy in the mail) it is clear that the S6 and E63 are just better balanced cars for real world driving. The E63 plays the high-rev/more gears game just like the M5, but beats it at its own game with greater torque and much less complicated transmission is the reason why it won. The Audi S6 was very close. The M5, to Automobile is just complicated and fussy for anything but track day use. M
According to the tester in this carmag yes, everyone dont agree that the M5 is a disaster for real world driving like Automobile make it sound like. Many M5 owners on m5board.com got upset on Automobile for what they claim. Its funny that this carmag was telling how great SMGII was on the M3 a couple of years ago, I think its a different reviewer person this time. This issue of Automobil is a tribute to Mercedes. Several pages of MB info, a great issue for MB fans. :t-cheers: Merc, did you get a copy without paying anything, how come you get it for free?
I have a subscription, it isn't free but its cheap compared to CAR magazine!!! They didn't really say that the M5 and its SMG are a disaster, but they clearly didn't like it. Oh I'm sure people on a board called M5 anything would be spitting tacks over their beloved M5 coming in last place to an Audi and a Benz. Most of the U.S. mags I've seen test the M5 so far dislike the SMG in the M5 to some degree, but C&D did master it. Also, Automobile just quote manufacturer stats, they rarely if ever record their own. We all know the M5 is faster than what they had listed. M
They are actually owners that owned their car for a while. I trust people that actually spend time with their cars and not for a few days. And they werent complaining cause of the last place, they complained on Automobile and what they said regarding SMG. Dont diss people becuase they happen to own the car.
I didn't diss anyone, I said that I expect them to be upset. Just because they own the car doesn't make them automatically right about every issue that a particular magazine has with a car. A car with the power and ability of the M5 will make anyone overlook certain things, whereas a carmag isn't as blinded by ownership. Like I said before C&D mastered SMG and its obvious that Automobile didn't, SMG being the real issue with the M5 according to most reviewers. I would expect actual owners to have it mastered, but the knock is usually that in automatic mode it just doesn't cut it, not matter how you program it..its too jerky. A true manual will likely take care of this problem for many. M
No, not automatically right but they sure have some more experience than many others. Carmags arent automatically right all the time either. They test their cars for a short time and some cars need obviosly more time to master than others. The jerkiness isnt that bad but compared to an Automatic it isnt smooth. Good thing is that the manual mode works better. BTW a true manual is on the way for both M5/M6
But the fact that anyone needs more time to master anything (especially a transmission) is troubling for a BMW. It didn't use to be that way. A BMW was simple and pure, now they aren't as much so anymore - that is the overall theme of BMW losing some of these comparos nowadays. A simple, but brilliant driving machine is what BMWs are supposed (used) to be. It shouldn't take so long to learn how to get the best of out a car like the M5, which is their overall point which I somewhat agree with. BMW left off certain things from the regular 5-Series models like active steering to make the M5 the best machine possible so this simplicity concept isn't foreign to them. You're saying the same thing here, whats the difference? That is what they're saying it doesn't function well in automatic mode. I haven't driven a M5, but I've driven other SMG BMWs and in auto mode a person expecting regular automatic-like shifting is in for a rude shock. M
The good thing is that the sales for M5/M6 are great. Like I said, a proper manual is on the way. Hopefully it will be more appreciated among carjournalists. :eusa_pray SMG3 is much more smoother than SMG2. SMG1 was a disaster, SMG2 is better and SMG3 is so far the best. At least its improving. Also SMG on M versions are better than on standard versions. SMG is disappearing from standard versions, DSG or ZSG is under development. I dont know if it get to M versions someday.
BUt you see that's the thing I've been saying all along. I'm not trying to defend the M5, but it's a fact that SMG is not an automatic. It's a pretty much a manual with no left pedal. Again, when you change gear in a manual car without lifting your right foot, what happens? Same concept here. Yes, you have to get used to it. But if you realize that the SMG is more like a manual, and drive it in the same manner you would with a manual, then it would be smoother than if you drove it like an automatic. So you can't really drive it like the E63 or S6. And if you want a back to the basics car, the get Z4M or MCoupe. It's a good thing that they are leaving the buyer some option in the ///M range.
Good point! I think the M5 and M6 are the flagship models of the M series, and M have packed them full with all the technolgy they have, because they are top of the line! I reckons cars such as the next M3 will be more simple!
I'm aware of all that, but if they have an "auto" mode people are going to expect it to drive like that, especially Americans who love their automatic transmissions. What is the point of having an automatic mode if you still have to drive it like a manual. Makes no sense. I mean if VW can provide a similar trans that does both equally well BMW should be able too also. Not only that, but a lot of reviewers have said that having all those different modes is overkill. M
I don't get it, more tech that gets in the way of driving (according to some) is not a good thing. The old M5 was more of a purist machine according to many, but BMW is aware of this because they purposely left off some the lesser 5-Series gadgets when building the M5. More tech doesn't always best. I'm amazed that I have to take this position with you BMW guys. I thought you guys loved the driving experience first and didn't want all this "stuff" getting the way of it. If active steering was so brilliant then why isn't it on the M5? Answer: it isn't needed. To say that in order to get a purist machine a M Coupe or Z4M is just creating an excuse for the M5, IMO. Aren't all "M" machines supposed to be purist machines? M
