Discussion in 'Internal Combustion' started by Soup, Oct 4, 2011.
So the Merc draws first blood. :eusa_clap
Indeed. The last paragraph is telling. M faster, more comfortable, more luxurious and AMG more exciting to drive - sounds like they exchanged roles. Anyway AMG definitely turned a leaf with the E63. But at the same time I am also a bit suspicious of magazines looking for "giant killer" headlines like the initial M3 vs C63 comparisons.
ps. the article is wrong about M5's curb weight - it is 1870kg, 1945 is EU weight driver and luggage.
Nice read. So seems Mercedes swept that one in nearly everything except refinement and comfort.:eusa_clap
Looks like MB takes it this generation. If only BMW would stop bloating up their cars..and stop with all this "Joy" nonsense. I'm telling you, In BMW's quest to become the next Toyota, they've lost what they're about. BMW's were ALWAYS the ones that were more fun to drive.
Oh my....didn't expect that. We'll see what more tests say.
Weights are correct in the article. They are 90% fuel, 68kg driver and 7kg luggage. This directive has been used by all manufacturers for years. Weight is the enemy of fun and it shows. The merc is the only car here that looks german and deserves to win but I would have easily picked the jaguar over the bmw. Can't stand the looks of that awful 5-series.
Wow! So the E is the better looking and better driving. Not to mention, will probably be a little bit "cheaper" than the M5.
I said before, the M5 is the only one that has anything to lose, and M-B/AMG weren't caught sleeping.
It seems like, in order for AMG to instill the pure sport-bred driving nature they needed in order to make this a better all-out drivers car than the M5, they needed to go further in stripping from the regular W212's more comfort-focused core, while BMW's heavy F10 is so imbedded with such weight, it's clearly harder and/or less important to them to strip enough of it down, hence the comments on the cars levels of comfort/livability.
Performance Package (557 hp) - and the M5 would no longer be the faster...
Great job, Mercedes!
Except the article labels the weight as "kerb weight" which is with full tank of fuel but no driver or luggage Curb weight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. M5's kerb weight is 1870kg and EU weight (with 68kg driver and 7kg luggage) is 1945kg. For E63 - it's kerb weight is 1840kg and EU weight is 1915kg.
^^ so the M5 is a whopping 30 kg more heavy than the E63? Oh my God, the world is ending! BMW is too fat and heavy, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the E63 which weighs virtually the same. PLEASE, allow me to roll my eyes a couple of times.
And K-A, take note of the weight figures. If the 5er is too heavy, the E class is too. They weigh virtually the same buddy. No need to brainwash other members anymore with your comments regarding the weight of the Bimmers anymore.
These are giant killer headlines, that sell magazines. I can't take this serious. There is simply no possible way that the E63 drives better than the M5. Period.
I don't care what the outcome was because to be quicker, more refined and more luxurious means in my opinion it would have been victory to the M5. So in my opinion Sunny hit the nail on the head.
Though all things considered I would still pick the XFR based on the fact it looks a million dollars next to these two.
I know you like seeing BMW loose, but don't think BMW is not coming with some performance pack later on.
No. I like seeing AMG win in BMW M's territory
Surely there'll be PP for the M5, but who cares? The E63 PP is on the same level of power than the M5 (557 vs. 560 hp) - so they are comparable. Fairly.
I think you probably misunderstood me there. An exciting and engaging drive is more important to me than being faster or more comfortable. That is what made me a BMW fan in the first place. If they indeed reversed roles and E63 is the more exciting drive now, my preference would also change.
Some Members on MB Boards (and I believe one on this Board, who used this valuation to purchase an E63 over a CLS63) have stated that via AMG Driving Events (where they push cars to their very limits on tracks), the E63 is a much sharper performance tool than the CLS63, more brute and focused, functional, etc. So it looks like the E63 was the trick up M-B's sleeve in going after that classic "M appeal". Even the 2010/2011 E63's were very focused and made great strides toward BMW's fortay, but obviously this was the one where they really could get the car to where they wanted it to be.
My racing days are over, but man, I kinda wanna drive a new E63 though. I'm kinda scared as I tend to turn into Mr. Hyde when I get behind the wheel of something so powerful. Hence my appreciation for modestly powered cars.
Even Klier is jumping in the mercedes wagon, with the ever thruth that mercedes is the best !
You're right I did misunderstand your post, but I still stick by my statement that the M5 is my champion here because it's offering the speed and refinement I would expect from a luxury performance saloon. I don't want my ride to be compromised and nor do I want my daily driver to be less refined than a lesser sibling because if that was my requirement then I would be buying the smaller M3 instead.
I'm surprised to here the steering isn't as good as the others especially since it retained to older system and did away with the runflats, it's one area that BMW use to lead.
Though I still reckon that due to it being more luxurious and refined without compromising it's speed will make it even more appealing and will sell even better because of it.
Out of curiosity, would you have said the same thing back when it was the W211 E63/E55 VS E60 M5? Because, you're basically describing the AMG fans reasoning for buying the Benz over the more race-oriented 5'er. I feel that a lot of brand-fans of M and AMG will reverse sides, and spill the same reasons their competitors fans did in the previous eras, when BMW's were the king of sport, and M-B were the king of luxury/serenity, no exceptions. These two have tried so desperately to gain Market Share from each other, they've now crossed into the others turfs completely.
Look, I haven't driven the new turbo'd E63 but I have driven the outgoing M156-engined W212 E63 AMG in anger, around a circuit. There's a review somewhere out there in this forum. It really is fantastic for such a large, powerful saloon. Handling is just gorgeous - I have the dab of oppo experience to prove it - and the brakes are monster. Steering is remarkably communicative and better than an M3's imo. Even its gearbox is surprisingly up to the job and only the most demanding of track-work proponents will find it slow to down-shift. The thing I like best about the W212 E63 is how it disguises its size both visually and dynamically. For a Mercedes Benz it's a revelation in my eyes. Sure, the ride is firm but it's by no means brittle or harsh.
Of course I haven't - nor will I any time soon - driven the F10 M5 or XFR so I can't make an objective comparison but the crazy thing is I'd choose a different one every other day. The BMW M5 has a now very appealing dual nature about it, the XFR is just so darn good to look at (and, I imagine, to drive) and the E63 is a proper AMG saloon in every sense.
This is, coming from Sutcliffe, is one helluva result for the E63 AMG.