Discussion in '3 Series' started by SCOTT27, Jun 23, 2010.
Ha ha!! I know! He's trying to pass it off as something official. The idea that this document would already have either a N'ring lap time on it or at least a projected lap time on it when it's still three years away from being launched is a joke. :eusa_doh:
How could you imagine I tried to pass it as some official? Am I that mad? And if I have wanted, I'd do it much better than that.I just writen it with MS-Paint, not MS-Word. I am just speculating based on the lastest infos we have. And look I improuved, now I wrote FI I6 instead of NA V8. The actual M3 has v-max at 280 km/h and the M3 GTS at 305 km/h. Then they weight is realistic. If the F30 platform will be 50 kg lighter than E90 platform, and the M3 will be based on 335i, it will weigh aprox. the same. Then 8.000 rpm redline is possible, the McLaren has rdeline at 8.500 rpm, it could be eaven higher. M3 F32 is not a McLaren, but the M3 E92 is not a Ferrari and still has redline at 8.400 rpm.
Also, the M3 is coming out in 2014, 7:50 on the N-Ring will be nothing very special. Before this there come the new 911 (991), Boxster (986) and many other. The 911 GT3 (991) will brake 7:30 min, so what the n about the 911 Turbo (991)?
^^^Wait, wait, wait. So you posted your own speculations/wishes as sourced rumor? That to me is questionable in itself. I understand that this forum is not supposed to be a trusted source for news (i.e. NYTimes et al.) and is supposed to be a place for discussion. But it ought to be a place for productive discussion. Bring your wishes of what you want the car to be like but please don't pass it off as supported rumor.
And yes, you did try to pass it off as something official, or at the least something you sourced.
When something cryptic like this without prefacing with "I think it will have...." is posted, then it comes off as it's coming from an authoritative source.
Then you post something that you seem to try to pass off as an "official document that has been leaked" when in fact it's something you created on MS-Paint. It makes me question your motive.
Also chances of a FI engine in production car having a redline of 8000 RPM are pretty minimal. Especially if it's an engine that's based on a more "plebian" design. Yes, the McLaren's Ricardo engine can do it, but that is no run-of-the-mill engine like the BMW I6. The Ricardo engine is a specialized engine built from the get-go to do that in a perrformance machine. If I were to speculate the engine M-sport is going to use in the M3, it's going to be a heavily modified BMW-sourced engine. A BMW-sourced that was not only designed to be performanceoriented but efficient. So 8000 in a turbo engine, while possibe, is VERY unlikely.
I can't speculate whether you are "mad" or not but you just threw your whole credibility out the window. I'm not one to railroad someone, but this was really annoying. It's hard for me to give you the benefit of the doubt especially when you posted that MS-Paint "document", but I'd advise you to post any personal future speculation more carefully.
*steps off soapbox*
But why go to the trouble of writing it in MS-Paint and making it an attachment and make the subject heading "new"? :t-hands: Why not just reply to the thread in the normal manner?
Of course you were trying to pass it off as something official.
This thread just took on a whole new level of dillyness! LOL!
MS-Paint. ROFL! Oh man, I was waaay off.
in our heads and our hearts we know where to take the M3 but as of now a lot of it exists half on paper and half in practical experimental terms.
As of to move forward with the M3 and expand the options available is very much in plan. But there is no final decision on what terms to use. Even though there are options available because BMW reckon the M3 could be expanded like an 911 with several enthusiast options as the M3 has done since the E30. CSL could return or indeed continue GTS as the F32 will continue the M3 in competition, everything is up in the air at the moment because they want to get the M5 ready and out the door.
Dude, its obvious that you were trying to pass-it-off as an official document.
Next time, i suggest you use the latest BMW letterhead and try not being too imaginative with your figures. The BMW PressClub website has some really good examples. Also, I'll try and ask someone from BMW if they have some templates for you to use.
Better luck next time!
Scott, Do you know when the production for E92 M3 coupe and E70 X5 M will end? I know E90 M3 is 11/11. So sometime 2012 should be E92 M3 and late 2012 for E70 X5??
It is true, this is not a speculation thread, so I had not to post it here. And anyone who says the McLaren is not efficient is wrong, it is the most efficient in its class.
I have problems to believe the 8000 rpm because the S55 would base upon the N55 (right??) which has Valvetronic and Valvetronic-engines have problems concering durability when they reach rpm's higher than 7000. That's what I read several years ago in a magazine when the first Valvetronic-engines were introduced by BMW.
lol, last thing we need is another footie, passing off speculation and wishful thinking as inside information.
How is this true? Why do you think what you posted is reliable?
Didn't South already tell us what the next M3 engine would be, 3L tri-turbo inline 6. :t-hands:
In your opinion, that is I6 BMW tilted @ an angle is one of the most beautiful engines too look at IMO.:bowdown:
Somehow I stumbled across the virtual M3 performance numbers Levi posted in this thread and these numbers led me to think about it....
And I came to the conclusion that 450hp or even more might not happen in the upcoming F3x M3.
I think it is quite save to say (as many hints have been posted by different more or less credible people) that the S55 engine in the F3x M3 will be a biturbo based N55 - that means a 3 liter I6.
450hp - as Levi indicated (wishfull thinking?) would translate into a specific output of 150hp/liter. Is this likely to happen?
Let's look at specific output of modern FI engines....
The new McLaren MP4 has slightly above 150hp/l, but this is for sure a special race engine - not comparable with a N55 based mass production engine. Any other modern FI engine VW 2.0/2.5TFSI, Porsche Turbo, Nissan GTR are clearly below 150hp/l. The engines with 150hp/l or above which I remember are those in the Mitsubishi EVO. But these engines have a characteristic that is absolutely NOT suitable for a ///M engine. Throttle response is awfull and the turbo hole is huge!
--- SPECULATION MODE ON ---
In 2014 the ///M will anounce it's new M3 with the new S55 and a surprisingly low peak horsepower around the same level as the last M3 (420hp or maybe 430hp). Torque of course will be much better compared to the S65 - around 500NM could be expected.
From a driveability point the S55 will be better. Max RPM will surely be 1000 RPM lower but on the other hand the usable RPM band also starts 1000 RPM earlier. All over this usable RPM band the power of the S55 will be around 20 percent over the S65.
If you look back to the engine update of the S65 for the M3 GTS this seems to be also the right concept for sportscars. Note the GTS engine was explicitly tuned for more mid rev power - peak power only slightly increased and was obviously not a development target.
What also may back my speculation is the need for responseness that the ///M owes to it's die hard NA engine fans. I mean - producing a peak performance FI engine without throttle response plays into the hands of the people predicting the downfall of the ///M. So I am sure that responsiveness is ranked much higher in the specification sheet than sheer horsepower. And since these attributes contradict each other to some degree, horsepower will be the clear looser.
From a marketing point of view it is maybe not that bad:
Having the same horsepower as the predecessor can obviously be marketed as "BMW first to end the horsepower war".
The F3x M3 will the be the perfect promoter of EfficientDynamics:
- same hp, BUT
- faster in any aspect
- significantly less fuel consumption in the standard test cycles
Why do I think that F3x will be faster although having same max. HP?
- Throughout most of the rev band significantly more power
- as usual: more refined chassis suspension
- lower weight!?
The last bullet might be somewhat wishfull thinking from my side.... But I ask myself: What shall BMW do with all the saved money from using a N55 based engine over a special built ///M engine? In my opinion some of this saved money could go into some true weight saving measures. I hope that ///M is able to bring down the weight of the F3x M3 - maybe save around 150lbs? Then the whole package would make really sense in the new green efficient dynamics world.... Lower weight would contribute to additional fuel savings and every gram of saved CO2 is important for BMW. Starting 2018 every gram above 130g/km CO2 costs the manufacturer of the car 95€ penalty at least in the EU!
--- SPECULATION MODE OFF ---
Having said this about the S55, I somewhat doubt, that the successor of the current 1 M Coupe really gets an I4 FI engine. I mean - the N20 is a 2 liter engine - what specific power should we talk about in a S20 then? 170hp/l? I cant imagine that...
What do you mean?
I'd like to see some weight reduction for the new M3.
It could well be that the next 1 M coupe ends up with a 2 litre 4-pot, producing something like 270 hp, as long as the car tips the scale at no more than 1 300 kgs EC DIN.
OK - but then you also predict that there is no I6 in the F2x anymore?
I don't now - but the N55 is there and BMW did sell the E82 135i quite well....
This should be tempting to also offer a F22 135i, isn't it?
It is so, there will be no more I6 on the 1 Series, 2 Series, X1 and Z2. The 1 Series Hatch Tii may get a 280 HP TT 2.0l I4 and the M2 a 320 HP TT 2.0l I4. The TT 1.6l I4 of the Mini WRC / BMW 320si WTCC makes more than 300 HP, of course it is a race car.