German Car Forum

Werner Breitschwerdt is considered by Mercedes-Benz to be the "father of the 190," the automaker's groundbreaking sedan that is celebrating its 25th anniversary. As a member of Daimler-Benz AG's board of management, Breitschwerdt was responsible for the research and development division.



While many vehicles were developed under his guidance, the 190 "baby Benz" (W201 series) with which Mercedes successfully entered the compact sedan segment in late 1982 is the car for which he is best known.

Great read of the core values!

-->> 'Baby? of the Benzes turns 25

We have 84' 190D with more than 1 000 000 km, but stil it's runing great

Damn the new C is soooo guud looking

As far as the baby benz range goes..

I only love the 190 and the W204

W203 was OK

And W202 is the worst looking MB imo EVER..i HATE IT..

Come on Artist, the W202 was the worst looking Benz ever? The 202 was a solid little car that was more of a Mercedes-Benz then the W203 was in many areas.

M

I love the W202, it has the presence of a Benz and was a very good design carrying over the W124 design in a modern form. The 190 is obviously an epic classic, superb car. It's only the W203 that I wasn't too hot on.

Damn solid car, one of my top favourite AMG.

^ok thats a VEEERy late model and a top of the line..

just look at this:




But i dont discredit its importance..

One of these days I need to start working on mine again. Great car, but it will still be difficult to switch back to from a 07 E.

C43 was a good car, but I would rather have a 16 valve 190.

True. That was one of the problems with the W210 E-class and W208 CLK as well. They both looked very sub-premium in entry level trim.

Every Mercedes looks like this in bare trims, come guys you all know this. We all can find horrible pics of the W220, W210, any sedan Mercedes out there. The W202 was no different.


M

W202 is like the introduction into the triangular tail light era of Mercedes.. I think it looks good, a baby W124, well at least I dont' think it differs that much from a W124 E in terms of apperance, all the profile, even the car shape is pretty much dubbed from its bigger sibblings.
190E is really the cool car though, there is just something special about it. it's more than 'just another car'.

It depends on the TRIM LEVEL. The W210 and C208 were available with CLASSIC and SPORT respectively, which were the cheapest for their kind. The Elegance and Avantgarde trims were the classier and more upscale trims for both the W210 and C208.

I always wondered why the C208 CLK was available with the cheap Sport trim but I guess Mercedes' had their reasons for this in the mid 1990s. Either way, a W210 E-Class in Elegance or Avantgarde trim didn't look anything "sub-premium".

Avantgarde



Elegance




The Classic trim versions however looked like Ford Mondeo competitors. Thankfully most of them were used by taxi and police fleets. Few private buyers bought Classic trim, most went for Elegance according to Mercedes Classic.

I love the W201, I like the W202 very much (it wasn't as bulletproof in terms of quality as the W201), but I don't like the W203 that much. I love the W204, it's very close in spirit to the W201 I think. The W202 C43 is gorgeous!!

However the W210 is I think the worst sedan Mercedes ever created. Good car, no doubt. But very far from Mercedes' standards: brought pretty much nothing over the W124, rusted like no other Mercedes ever did including the /8, looked old and outfashioned from day one (non-Avantgarde grille is absolutely ugly), and was just inferior in almost every aspect to the 5 series. Even the safety is according to many inferior to the W124, or at least didn't progress.

I never had any problems with the elegance and avantgarde trims. But the prefacelifted W210 and C208 CLK in sport or classic trims are probably the worst looking MB's I've seen the past 15 years. Looked very non-luxurious inside and out in those trims.

Don't forget the W202 C-Class in ESPRIT / CLASSIC trim. Those babies had interiors which made 1980s Kia interiors look good.

I think the W210 had a pretty good safety record. I once had a summer job at Mercedes in Munich where I worked in the mail department sorting out mail etc. There were a number of customers who had written the dealership expressing their gratitude that their Mercedes had saved their life in a pretty bad accident. There were plenty of W210 E-Classes in those letters. I could tell because most owners wrote something like "...mein E230 (Bj. 1998)..." meaning that they gave the model and year of build etc. I thought that was pretty interesting, especially since a lot of these accidents happened on the Autobahn or on country roads, according to the letters. Autobild, when they reviewed the W210 as a potential used car, said that the safety record of this car is pretty solid.

It wasn't really inferior to the E39 BMW 5-Series as it had its strenghts and weaknesses. Among its strenghts were slightly more interior space, bigger trunk, better comfort and as some people will tell you, better overall safety. In handling, engines and build quality and a few other factors the BMW was the winner.

The W210 ranks as one of my favorite Mercedes' because of its cool styling. I remember that summer day in 1996 clearly when my father and I went up to the Mercedes dealer to check out the new E-Class. I was in love with that design from day one. I still think that it has aged well. In 1996 the design was heralded as ground-breaking for a Mercedes because it totally went away from the conservative styling of the W124. The W114/W115 led to the W123 and the W123 led to the W124. The W124 could have been a W123 with more boxy features and a more compact look. The W210 looked nothing like the W124 and only the quadruple round headlights of the early W123s can be said to be found in the W210.


I agree though that the W210 was developed in era at Mercedes where cost-cutting was the number one priority and was therefore not the car it should and could have been. The W1114/W114, W123 and W124 and even the W211 definitely own it in terms of build quality.

<<<Werner Breitschwerdt is considered by Mercedes-Benz to be the "father of the 190," the automaker's groundbreaking sedan that is celebrating its 25th anniversary. As a member of Daimler-Benz AG's board of management, Breitschwerdt was responsible for the research and development division.



While many vehicles were developed under his guidance, the 190 "baby Benz" (W201 series) with which Mercedes successfully entered the compact sedan segment in late 1982 is the car for which he is best known.>>>

I guess that makes him responsible for the millions of dollars US spent on warranty claims. My '85 190E 2.3 was about as reliable as a five dollar atomic bomb. You name it, it crapped out. My '89 190E 2.6 was better but still required major engine work, thankfully covered by warranty. The shop foreman at my dealer confided to me about 1986 (in a weak moment) that "the damned things are failing faster than we can fix them."

The W202 (my C280) was much better but still had it's designed in problems while my early W203 ('01 C320) was probably worse than either of the 201s. On the other hand, my '08 C300 at 13 months has had NO DEFECTS!! Between the W204 and the current S-Class, warranty work orders in the shop have decreased to the point that some service departments have shut down their night shifts.

Afterall I guess the 190E was supposed to be a 'budget' Mercedes back then, unlike BMW for example, their E30 was probably their most important model. But I thought the 190E was a pretty robust/reliable car? Our W124 (one of the latest 1994 model) had only one problem, which was for some reason, the engine start was weird, it takes about 3-5 seconds of ignition before it fires up..

Talking about the W124 vs W210, well, back then we could've waited another 2 months or so to get the brand new W210, but I remember back then, 1995, people were running their arse off to get the W124 because the quad-circular lights look so... bad (that's the most kind word i can think of). Even looking at pictures now, the W210 doesn't look good. Without a MB badge, the exterior design is probably Korean standard, the interior wasn't that big of an improvement over the W124.

I don't think the W210 looks "Asian" at all. It has a very solid Teutonic elegance to it - definitely European in design and look, not Asian.

I've always found the W210 the worst-looking MB sedan ever. It's not as Teutonicly strict as the predecessors, not as "proportions above all, form follow function", and hasn't the organic flow of the successors. It's in-between, but not a really convincing work. The FL is way better.

Even the proportions are wrong, the bonnet is too short and too plunging while the rear stays massive. The rear-lights of pre-FL models sure look like something Kia or Hyundai would've come with, certainly not Mercedes. A bad joke.

It could've been the start of a new era. Instead it's the end of the Golden Era for Mercedes... With that car MB started to loose ground towards the competitors. Now they're starting to gain it back, and quickly, but have lost their obvious superiority.
Back in the time, nothing could compare to a Mercedes: reliability, safety, finish, mechanical and build quality... A piece that was 2mm thick in any other car was 4mm thick in an MB. A piece that made 100.000kms in a car made 300.000 at least in an MB. The car itself was built to last forever without cost-cutting at any rate.

For me, the W210 is the symbol of what MB has lost. The beginning of the end.

The W221 and W204 are giving me a lot of hope, they're as reliable as these good old Benzes I adore! With even fewer childhood-glitches than the W124 for instance!

Again, I think the W210 is a very elegant car that has aged very well. Back in 1996 this design was heralded as the "new Mercedes look" and it clearly influenced other Mercedes designs of the same period such as the CLK, SLK, W203 C-Class etc.

In terms of quality I will concede that the W210 wasn't the best, but it also wasn't the worst. If the Mercedes standard was 100%, then the W210 would probably be a 75%. It wasn't a bad car but it also wasn't really built to the best of Mercedes standards. There are enough people in my town who have W210 E-Classes with high mileages and they're doing great. One of these guys drives to Eastern Europe a lot on business (something with wood imports or exports) and has racked up over 500,000 km on his W210 (an E200 or E230 I believe).

Still, you will find a lot of well-kept and high-mileage W210s that are in great shape - and that has to mean something in terms of build quality. Yes, it wasn't the best, but it was certainly good enough to lost longer than an average car.


By the way, how did this discussion turn from the 190 W201 to the W210 E-Class?

Mercedes worst car by far was the original ML. Cheap inside like you wouldn't believe and unreliable like you wouldn't believe either.


M

But the W163 ML was a "quality car" compared to these two.