German Car Forum

Thanks, Jeff!

Pitty, the small roadster/coupe from BMW starting with Z will never be as nice as the Z3...

What is you like so much about the Z3 Tycoon?

To me, it was a complete non-BMW. Girly looking, old E30 parts for the tech and no good driving dynamics.

I thank God BMW did a complete 180 with it's successor (looks, dynamics and performance)

Z3M coupe is a cool car but look very outdated compared to Z4.
Everytime my father see a Z3 Coupe he always says, here comes the fisherman car.

To me,the last "true" M was E30 M3.Now,that does not mean that I don´t have huge respect to newer versinos but E30 takes the cake..Handling,engine,muscular body,aggresive design..it has it all..Who needs ESP,DSC,or any electronics in a sports car? E30 M3 does not have any of this but still,even now,it could teach some newer models some lessons about handling and stability,not to mention in pleasure of driving such machine..So,E30 is brightest of crown jewels in M familly,period !

I am sory if I got carried away,but I really love this car..

I don't see why people turn their backs on older cars seriously. I can tell that some of you that come to this site will admire the current M3. Then when the new M3 comes out you turn your back on the old one and go wit the new. The samething hapepend with the M5 current and old. An M is an M and I like the Z3 M coupe a lot. The car is dated like Just Me said, but when it was not dated it was a mean little car. It still is. It has not died. The only exception is that there is a newer car and our eyes become attracted to the refined shapes and stuff. The car isn't any different. Maybe a slight change here and there with some extra goodies but at the end of the day it is still a car that gets you from point A to B. The real point of the car is its soul. The M soul. It is there in the old, current, and future M3. You can't take that away. Unfortunately some of the past M's become old and decommisioned in many of your minds because of the brut strength of the new dogs. Lets not forget that in its time it was the best of the best and we all admired it. Don't abandoned it now.

I do have a sense of what you mean, but isn't that just human nature? People are always looking for the next best thing and nowadays with so many different models being released it's easy for people to forget about past models. However not everybody is like that, many people still prefer and admire the older models of Porsche, BMW, Mercedes and etc. As I said in your "5er issuse" thread, the E39 5er still very much appeals to me, much more so than the E60. I have not forgotten about the E39 and how amazing it was when it came out. Nor have I forgotten about the BMW Z8, Porsche 993 Turbo, Honda NSX, Lotus Esprit, Lexus SC400/LS400, etc. One thing for sure, I will never forget about the Zonda, even as years of car design and new automobiles arrive from Pagani and other manufacturers

In contrasting what I said 7.3 you are right. I agree.

However, what essence of what I was trying to get at--which I can see you indicated you understood--was that people tend to disregard or 'downgrade' the older M's or older models in general. It is interesting when you note the language. For example, in Klier's post you can see that he feels that the Z4 was an answer to the mistakes or the blandness of the older Z3. There is a sense of dissaproval of the older M coupe. Maybe when a new model is presented not only do we see the aging begin or increase but we also see the flaws. I am sure in redesigning a car designers pay attention to what they think went wrong.

Nevertheless, touching back on my point, I still think that forgetting and 'downgrading' is a practice that just be revised and reviewed by the user. We tend to 'forget' but at one time that particular car that are are 'forgetting' was the one car you wanted the most. Treat the cars as if they have souls and you will fully understand what I am saying.

Thanks Bruce.

Perhaps Klier always found the Z3 coupe bland, even before the Z4 coupe came out.. However I don't want to speak for him.

Perhaps some of these "flaws" which people see really aren't "flaws", they just become issues in people's mind when the new vehicle has upgraded electronics..Maybe the older vehicle didn't really have any "flaws" per se..

That's not to say they're aren't flaws on certain vehicles, because manufacturers have proven to improve electronically reliabilty or transmission smoothness or speed..but how often is that "flaw" in the older model, really a "flaw"..

Sometimes it's just a matter of people grabbing every thing new when it comes

It's a viscious circle...

One thing I've always found interesting is how car magazines will praise a model when it comes out, but then turn on it when the new model comes out, as if the previous model wasn't any good.. When it most certaintly was and Is.

Well 7.3 you are simply rephrasing what I have already said. You are right.

The flaws may or may not be there but the fact remains that many of the "flaws" that become apparent in the future are only issues that come up in our minds.

I agree with you Michael and I believe it is just a symptom of the materialistic society we live. Many people can't stand the fact that somebody might have a newer, faster car than them so they disregaurd the older dated cars, no matter how tradition rich and a good car it is, in return for the newer more advanced cars. Those are the same people who laugh at the older cars' "flaws" when just a few years ago it was "The" car to have.

I think I am the opposite, I really enjoy and respect the older models and in many cases I would prefer to get an older historic model as opposed to the brand new, more advanced cars. In fact as I said in the other thread My dream car is the Audi S2 which is more than 15 years old and I would rather have that than say a brand new S4. Even now I drive an '01 A4 and I find I liked my old Audi 90 S from 1993 better, not because the A4 is a bad car, it is a great car, I just liked the 90 better.

Sorry, man, BS...

I wasn't talking about driving dynamics (which were actually good), but only about design and you can bitch about Z3 as much as you want, but IMHO, Z4 looks like crap next to Z3... I didn't stuck in latest BMWs only...Just my personal choice...