German Car Forum

Rev. Jesse Jackson Wants BMW to Stop Racist Ad Moves - Blackvoices Autos

So, is this for real or is it blown out of proportion?

It's a common practice in marketing ... The exclusion tactics. It's a part of the segmentation / targeting process.

Excluding based on location, sex, age, profession, race, lifestyle, sexual orientation, religion etc ... The problem is one exclusions seem to be more OK, why other cause more problems among some activists.

And the media strategy follows the other strategies.

Therefore the media agency is told eg. to exclude media targeting specific part of the population

eg. Exclude all the media targeting people over 60 ... (when advertising adrenalin sports facilities).

Or ... exclude people sub 50 (eg. when advertising spa holidays for elderly)

Or ... exclude media targeting women only (eg. when advertising cosmetic products for men)

Or ... exclude media targeting Muslim community only (eg. when advertising pork beacon)

Or ... exclude media targeting people of color (eg. when advertising a cosmetic product for sensitive pale skin)

Or ... exclude media targeting vegetarians (when advertising fast-food chain)

Etc.

You can do that (use the exclusion tactics - since it's easier), or use the inclusion tactics instead: listing all the targeting population, and left the non-targeted out (a bit more complicated). The final result is the same. It's all about the path you use.

Does it make a difference?



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Regarding NUD ...

NUD is an exclusion based on LIFESTYLE, not on RACE.

Since urban formats - although usually associated with African American community mostly - are not race exclusive.

So I don't see NUD as a race issue. Otherwise Urban media should also be called racist if they really do claim they target one race exclusively.



I guess MINI see no targeted population there among urban lifestylers - and therefore the exclusion. Eg. they exclude combos as well.

Since MINI see themselves as a lifestyle brand, offering specific lifestyle products.





Racism is bad, and I respect rev. JJ ... but sometimes he sees a bogeyman where there is no one.

this just in, Rikfrombelgium wants Rev. Jesse Jackson to stop looking for racisme to get his face in front of a camera and stop talking out of his ass.

Thanks EnI, great post. I remember these things from my university marketing classes. I did not know this name for it, but by your description, this is basic market segmentation.

I.e. same reason why Rolex does not put ads in the local slum newspaper.

Well, well. Here I am sporting a MINI avatar and I so happen to be a young black man...*** is going on? From reading the initial news report something seems very awry. To me. And I've been a BMW fan for half my life. Don't market MINI to urban communities? Urban communities are where cars like those made by MINI are suppose to make the most economical sense?

Let me clarify, I am NO supporter of Jesse Jackson. He's insincere and an opportunist who looks to shine his faux beacon of light whenever opportunity presents itself for him to do so.

Well, there are urban communities and there are urban communities.

Urban (contemporary) - usually these are radio stations broadcasting rap & hip-hop mainly, sometimes also R&B.

Yes, the majority listening to these stations are young Afro-American from 18-30. BUT not exclusively!

Yet the more important is the income factor of this population (majority of them, not all of course) - which is too low to be MINI's targeted population.

What MINI marketing people probably wanted was to exclude certain radio formats which attract certain lifestyle led by youngsters WITHOUT proper income to buy a MINI!

So, MINI marketing did exclude formats which statistically attract low-incomers. And since MINI is a premium product, they are not interested in such population.

And here unfortunately happened that certain lifestyle, income factor & radio format are somehow associated with (statistically significant) population of young Afro-Americans -which raised attention of activists like rev. JJ etc, and caused some racial fuzz.




So, what now? Will now activists demand form MINI to include those media as well - despite not broadcasting to MINI targeted population?
It's a complete waste of resources ... So, just to be politically correct?

Will now premium brands be forced to advertise in some public school as well (and not private only) - since eg. most kids on that public school are eg. Latinos - just to avoid racist accusations?

What about billboards? In billboard cases the "discrimination" is even more evident - since agencies demand them to be placed on certain locations / districts only, or to exclude some neighborhoods / districts / streets. And we all know some residential areas are still very segregated ... contemporary ghettos etc.

Guys, it's marketing ... they love everybody with money, and despise people without it. Regardless of skin color, nationality, sex, age, sexual orientation, religion etc.

Yet with limited resources (time, money etc) you have to target the population that seems / proves / shows to be most interested in your product. All based on marketing researches ... tons of statistical calculations & analyses.

And believe me any deliberate race based or any other negative discrimination would be fatal to any company & brand.

But there still are some people who see evil everywhere. IMO there are much more important racial issues & problems in US than the issue with MINI not advertising in urban format radios.

I don't know the agenda of rev. JJ but this move was even well bellow his own standards.


Now you know what we communication / marketing people have to deal with every single day.

And today when political correctness in overdrive - even exceeding common sense sometimes in some cases - it's very hard to do anything without "insult" or "offend" someone. Any many just seek attention - to promote their persona, or to attract new supporters. Therefore all the overreactions & sensational exaggeration sometimes. Don't get me wrong - I'm saying that's the case with rev. JJ!!! But still there are many other cases out there.


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The problem with marketing still is there is still much "collateral damage" - since a certain segment (of population) is described with most representable & common characteristics - which sometimes proved to be very stereotypical. But if the statistics show so, hardly anyone can argues the numbers. Sure there are some smaller groups within the segment which are not stereotypical, and not featuring all the characteristics of the majority in the segment - but still significant number of them to be a part of the same segment. And such groups are usually a collateral. Either missed out, or represented wrongly etc - and sometimes that can be annoying to sem, and start to feel offended etc.

Such people are just "lost in statistics" ... And that's common in marketing. and elsewhere as well when only majority of a certain population / segment is targeted (eg. in medicine).

Thank again EnI, I hope this kind of posts are read by people who does not always like your posts here on the board.

This is very informative.

I would say race is one of the most insignificant issues in the modern U.S. Most of us get along fine in our daily lives without ever noticing, mentioning or caring about another person's skin color. It's people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson who see racism everywhere they go. They're the ones who perpetuate the false belief that whites are always conspiring to oppress blacks.

There is a differense, urban settings like NYC is what Mini is good for, Mini does not see any value in marketing to urban settings like Compton... which has lower income average then most places. Why waste money trying to sell products to people who can't afford it?

Jesse Jackson is one of the most racist people in America, he just needs to STFU and go away. Just because a white person does something he does not like, does not mean was done because of racism.

He is a ******* corrupt bastard that wields "racism" charges to extort people/companies. He did the same to Toyota few years ago to get contracts for his friend's companies.

It's African American genius. Get it right. Beyond that wealthy black families (those not generating wealth by way of involvement in the entertainment industry) exist in fairly large numbers. Why don't you know/hear about them? They don't fit the stereotype. So you sure as hell can't tell me somehow the majority of the African American population doesn't fit MINI's demographic, or that somehow we all fall below/in the low income bracket of the country. What a f'ng joke. You just watch too much damn Western media coverage and don't do your own research. Oh, and you probably have never met a Black person in your life.

Race insignificant? Then tell me why someone left a noose outside of my front door the day after Obama was elected as President. I also happen to live in one of the most "liberal" places on earth. Have you ever encountered discrimination/racism on your own? Something tells me "no" - and don't try to come back with some embellished reply founded on lies.

And just where the hell did you get "Compton" from in anything I wrote previously in this thread? Only an idiot would think Compton would be on an luxury car makers marketing and advertising agenda. The above statement could be one of the most subliminal forms of racism I've read on the internet.

In short it's sad to see many seemingly "well-informed" individuals make such overtly ignorant and ill-informed statements. Then again the problem of racism has never been one I have or ever will take ownership of. Ignorance is bliss.

Whoa, easy tiger. When the vast majority of Americans go about their daily lives without ever desiring to lynch, oppress or otherwise insult a person for their race, then the 'race issue' can be said to be insignificant.

If you notice, nowhere was it said "racism is nonexistent." Nowhere was it said "racism is not an issue."

The existence of a handful of racists is not proof that racism is prevalent in the U.S. The majority of Americans voted for Barack Obama, and an even greater majority voted without a thought to his race.

And all this tells me you just don't have a clue. No point in explaining to the uneducated.

People don't have to say racist things or commit racist acts to be racist. America is by and large a separate and still heavily unequal society. As long as the current structure of society serves the needs and desires of a dominant power group there's little need to address the problems facing less "significant" disenfranchised minority groups who don't hold the same economic privilege and power as the dominant group. Electing Barack Obama as president didn't cure and wipe racism off the globe or this country.

If this is really, truly what you believe, then it speaks volumes about your intelligence.

That's very true. But what are you aiming at here? A psychic understanding of the "real" race issue in America?

Using overt acts of racism as your guide you'll see racism has been dying for the last 50 years, and sputtering its last breath for 20.

What current structure of society? The one that allows you, me and everyone else to pursue virtually whatever jobs, hobbies and pleasures we choose? You mean the one that allows us, as individual citizens, to create our lives ourselves? Become wealthy or fall into poverty on our own?

You make it sound like we live in an oppressive feudal society.

The less "significant" disenfranchised minority, you seem to be forgetting, are given time after time the opportunity to succeed. Whether it's through scholarships, grants, school vouchers or affirmative action.

What more could be asked for? A birthday wish for ambition and the desire to succeed? Or just the government handing over the wealth of the rich?

Are you F**king serious?

Why someone left a noose ouutside your house? Who knows, but I don't think anyone sane person would condone that. But let me guess you just laughed at West Hollywood couple that had the McCain manikin hanging by a noose?

Sorry would you have preferred Detroit, or any other low income district in any major city? Compton just jumped to the front of my mind. If I was selling some high dollar product I would not shift my ads to run in those areas, just like I would not shift ads for Phat Farm to run in Beverly Hills. Basic product knowledge, nothing to do with race, at least for the "educated".
Problem with some people is they are so biased they can't see anything but racism even in items that are not.


So white people are racist by birth? Everyone is racist? F**k off.

Why do black people get to call themselves African American while everyone else is just American? Maybe if they would join the rest of society things woudl become more equal?

I agree electing Obama did not "cure" racism it made it worse. Just look at the people Obama surrounds himself with. Van Jones, Father Flager, Reverend Wright... God damn America, US of KKK A. Nice peaceful sermons

IBTL

Guys we are not going to solve racism here in a car forum, so let us not even try. If we can bring it back to topic about marketing Mini, may be the thread will survive.

So back on topic, I would safely bet that BMW is not buying spots for Mini in country music stations in Montana either or putting up billboards in a trailer park. Yes, it is a gray line between stereotyping and targeted marketing, but in this case, I think it genuinely the latter. To be a racist act, the motivation needs to be race (as in BMW not wanting blacks to drive mini, the way a certain clothing brand didn't want non-whites to buy their clothing line), not financial consideration (as in are we going to get enough return on advertising budget).

@ Deutsch

Read my posts again. You got them wrong. Who said there are no wealthy African - Americans? We were talking about urban format radio listeners in particular areas. Not about the whole population.

What is ironical here is the urban decay (at least in the US) was brought about in the first place by automobiles. When automobiles became cheaper and more accessible in the mid 20th century, the middle class and upper middle class (unfortunately mostly white at that point in time) moved out of cities to sub-urban settings leading to flight of tax and income from the cities and leading to their decay.

Any marketing is usually interested in particular lifestylers with high-enough income so they can afford - so to target them they need a perfect chanel (eg. mass media) to deliver a message to them. And media agency has the data (from media themselves, or the media research agencies) showing which media can reach the targeted population, and which media can't. And based on that fact proper media are chosen.

As said before: you can either use exclusion or inclusion method - which is easier in particular case. If there is more media to exclude then inclusion method is used, when more to include then the exclusion method is used - when making a list of media.


*****

We also don't have enough info to know what exactly was the targeted population for that certain advertising campaign. Since at least in MINI case they have quite some campaigns targeting very specific different population segments with very specific messages: very tailored campaign. And we don't know beside urban format what other formats were excluded as well!!!!

And whatever media / format / targeted population was excluded or included it WAS NOT done on race base!!!! I'm 2000% certain.

Sure there is a catch 22 there for MINI: to explain their true intents they would have to present all the marketing strategy for this campaign - which usually is a non-disclosure matter ... since otherwise if going public with the strategy you can give your rival insight in your work. Which is not a good thing - to be disclosed to the rivals so easily.


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I'm sure those activists who go public & making issue out of that thing have no idea about basic marketing, or are so corrupted already to see evil (eg. racism) everywhere.

What's next? Being called a racist in the case you don't like rap / hip-hop / R&B - since this music is STILL associated very much with African - Americans?

Just like that UK campaign where they wanted to teach toddlers (!!!) it was inappropriate to say "Yuck!" when served a forign food they didn't like (eg. spicy curry etc) since that could offend certain people, and be seen as an act of racism / xenophobia. Geez! Sure ... toddlers are "definitely" thinking about racism when declining some food they don't like.

Over-sensitivity is not good. Since otherwise you can "detect" evil everywhere. And in the end that can leed to special rules & protocols how to behave in public not to offend anyone: meaning everybody acting like a robot. No smiling, no gesticulating, no staring, no talking, no sudden movements etc ... Since by saying something, or showing your emotion / character you can easily offend at least one person who will generalize / project that offend to the whole community of his / hers.

Is that the solution? I think it isn't. Mutual respect, ability of self-criticism, ability of accepting criticism from others without being offended so quickly, not being too sensitive, and tolerant & constructive DIALOGUE. I believe these are much better solutions.

This is all that needed to be said.

This is a very very sensitive subject - racism. Try not to make it personal and try to avoid words like idiot, gay etc etc. And please discuss what this thread really is about or I fear this thread wont be around for too long.

Well I'm reading them.