German Car Forum

Whats the fuss about him leaving then? Sure BMW will have him replaced within no time

He will be replaced by Adriaan van Hooydonk!

Something i have never understood is whypress the always refer to only his post 99 work and always ignor the 92-99 era.

Sad deal, I appreciate his job for Bmw! Wherever (if any) he is heading, they're lucky!

Yes. After Ninic died the post remained empty. The tasks of interior design chief BMW Automobile ware temporarily assigned to AVH.


As I understand that decision making wasn't about particular car but about design strategy regarding the whole Project i (the whole family of cars!) ... eg. going retro or modern, round or angular, sharp or soft.

The info that's missing here is whether Project i cars will be a separate brand, or only new models under MINI or BMW brand. Quite some combinations possibles.

I got no info what had been Bangle's stand.

Part one of Two.

Judging by some of the remarks on some forums some especially within the useless attempt to "Fire Chris Bangle" community after the appearance of the E65 7er seems to think that victory has come at last.
And that there campaign has been vindicated.

Let us clear something up which many do not believe had BMW had any doubt of Chris Bangle's direction he would have been gone many years ago. BMW had faith that the company needed a transformation and Chris Bangle had the vision that enabled that change.

Whether many of his ideas and thoughts irritated traditionalists , simply BMW had to change direction , The same path as if continued would mean larger versions of the same car , BMW did not like that reputation and it was in the aftermath of Rover that the term being safe had to replaced with radical direction.

Chris Bangle has brought something entirely new to automotive design and that is communication - feelings , thoughts , ideas and influences are in a bangle speech on every BMW product. Chris is especially good at the big reveal in his unveilings showing how a crease looks like when the car is underneath a sheet pulling it tight so you can see the crease in the bodywork through the sheet , Chris knows what he is talking about unfortunately he relates more to people in a design field rather than an automotive journalist. That is why no other company in the automotive industry have such a flambuoyant and articulative character than Chris Bangle.

For sure when the E65 was unveiled there was a "What the **** is that?" from both the media and BMW Traditionalists alike , the problem was back then we did not communicate these cars properly , now as we in marketing have incorporated as seen with the the new 7er and Z4 and indeed X1 more communication and introduction to see what goes on with the designer , who is the designer , what feelings and emotions do the designer have, Back then it was unveil the car and give us your opinion?
We did not really communicate our thinking back then , which is what we are now doing .

BMW design has always been at the forefront when the media talk about
Automotive design no other manufacturer has been as open and talkative , Bangle also brings in leading design experts from all fields to talk to car designers there is also a thinktank within BMW that works on solutions to progressive areas on how to expand such models such as how do you replace the sedan , in which the second idea , the first being the BMW X6 Sport Activity Coupe , The BMW Progressive Activity Sedan Concept which will be unveiled next week in Munich being another project from this think tank . Enthusiasts will berate such thinking as against their idea of BMW philosophy but BMW now stands for Sheer Driving Pleasure as of since the dawn of the E65 I believe BMW have become more brave and innovative and building on the engineering the company has always portrayed in it's products.

Although the new BMW direction set in stone for the next generation of models , there will not be a return to the old days of "One sausage different lengths" no matter how many cry for those days , there is nothing interesting or emotive about going backwards in that direction.
Some manufacturers still evoke their direction in this way but the innovation and emotional factor have been replaced with average and comfortable design.

BMW has set the standard for design led commercial success and succesful key integration into emerging markets , the 7er (E65) was especially successful in key asian markets, And many other models have established successful integration in other markets especially the more niche models such as 6er , X6 and Z4. The appeal being cutting edge driving machines clothed in individuality - Simply because there was nothing else that drove or looked like this.

Bangle was also famous for solutions and in design you have to lead and solve problems one famous point is the advent of the stupid journalist term called the "Bangle Butt" which means a raised bootlid on several models. This was a problem within the packaging of the car , remember BMW started to conceive this model as a rival for the W140 S-Klasse before Mercedes realised the car was too big and sought about shrinking the W220 , which for BMW was too late because the 7er was already in motion.
In order to offer class leading trunk space , The solutions were not very simple . One idea incorporated a sculpted stepped rear wing with a conventional bootlid similar to Volvo , another was to raise the windowline a few inches higher so the bootlid would not be so noticeable and the final solution was the stepped bootlid which solved the packaging problem.

Unfortunately BMW are not the only ones that had to solve this problem with something unorthodox . Mercedes-Benz had a similar problem with the W221 S-Klasse in which it's rear bootspace would be eclipsed by the E65 and as the S-Klasse is known as the Premium Private Taxi from hotels the world over , the trunk height was essential . Mercedes incorporated the exact same thinking the only way to achieve an increase in trunk space was to lift the bootlid.

One of my motives at autoshows is to visit other manufacturers and hear there thinking of their design solutions , unfortunately there are many companies that incorporate similar BMW-esque design cues into their models. Lexus is a brand that has moved from originality (the first LS) to using different ideas as used by established luxry brands - Lexus may lead in Hybrids but they also offer Hybrids of BMW, Mercedes-Benz , Audi in their designs which is possibly why Europeans do not fall for Lexus in the same way as the USA.

The BMW Board have always been a major instrument in the progression of BMW's design department , they decide the brief and then the design department utilse the details and the packaging to illustrate their ideas.
One thing the BMW board understand greatly is the need for BMW to be upfront and decisive in what it is looking for knowing only too well that other manufacturers especially in light of it's commercial success are looking to see what BMW do next , knowing too well that BMW know how to integrate new solutions and develop new niches.

You would be surprised how tame (compared to BMW) how a first sketch would look and then the board would then decide we like this but can you expand it further ? Mke this larger? , stream down this ?
For typical stereotype of what a Board of management is normally? BMW are more open and creative in their thinking.

To Be Continued...

That means that the resignation of Mr Bangle, could be forseen from a long ago, hence all that publicity for van Hooydonk. If it wasn't for CB to leave BMW until he turned 60, then he could still keep a share of publicity!

Moreover, from this post of you Eni, you made me think that Mr. Bangle could also be fired by the Board of Directors for going strong AGAINST their decisions for the new design direction of the project i cars. Off course, they couldn't say they fired their chief design head (or whatever he was called), instead they said he quited for personal reasons. Classic one.

So, let's see!

Edited original thread, added official press release and image.

SpyPress reports on red alerts in Stuttgart and Ingolstadt. Bangle is gone ... BMW is back in the game. Audi is shaking like Shakira's hips, MB like Opa with Parkinson's.







PS: SpyPress also reports Toyota issued a statement they were interested in hiring Christopher E. Bangle as new Lexus Design Director ... His task would be to implement new design language for Lexus: B-finesse (pronounce: 'beefiness' ).

Now BMW will be able to sell cars, not only interesting lease rates and fleet cars with interesting prices...


No seriously, I didn't like his work but he did shake the car world and made it move forward. That cannot be denied, he was a man with new, fresh ideas and had (with the BMW Board) the guts to apply them without too much compromises.

Still can't get an answer to my two fundamental questions:
1) Why did Chris Bangle leave BMW?
2) Why now?

Giannis why not adding chris as a friend in facebook and kindly asking him ?

I don't have facebook

Anyway, i just can't see why he should quit. He is very successful, he is responsible for what BMW is today (more or less) and BMW is launching tons of new models. I can't understand it. And what Eni said, him not agreeing with the decisions of the BoD, doesn't make much sense to me!

Actually, i still can't believe it, BMW without Bangle.

I don't really know when the Bangle influence started but pretty much, the E46 E39 E38 designs back then was already so influential, that agression, sportiness and elegance can be one, with strong lines around the car body, and back then we call those "bmws". Pretty much it's only the recent years that all cars are becoming like that, that's why some friends of mine who are not really car fans, looks at an Audi or a new Merc to say "that's like a BMW".
I can't really say the design direction was changed or changed a lot, it was probably just "the time" when something major was needed, for example would you say there was a major change from the E30 to E36? hell yes, but it was just time for a major change, the new models don't lose anything from the old, or it doesn't add anything.

It was more the opposite: the BoD didn't agree with Bangle's "Project i" vision. It was like Bangle loosing the vote of confidence.

Bangle & van Hooydonk had different visions about "Project i" design language. BoD liked Adrian's vision better.

Mind the Design Director BMW Group is responsible for all design within BMW AG: BMW Automobile, BMW M & Individual, BMW Motorcycles, MINI, Rolls-Royce, and also "Project i".

I guess it's hard to take responsibility for a vision you don't agree with. I guess the differences in visions were quite substantial, so the compromise wasn't even possible. Birdie said Bangle seemed to be quite hurt since that vision was his "baby". I guess it has something to do with the "new paradigm of automobile" Bangle had talked about several times.


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Usually BoD gets several visions / strategies to choose from - and it seems Bangle & van Hooydonk found themselves on different sides. And in the end AvH won - getting the support from BoD. Bangle resigned since lost the confidence.

I was told Bangle was offered a top position at BMW DesignWorksUSA but refused it - deciding to go on its own.


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Another interesting info: Bangle is very limited by his BMW contract - he is prohibited to work for a company in design field in automotive company for several years. Therefore he can only work on non-automotive projects, while regarding automotive projects BMW AG has to approve them first - they kind a have right of first refusal for every Bangle's automotive project. Potential damages are huge. By the same contract BMW is obligated to pay Bangle compensations for those projects. And Bangle also gets a huge bonus on a leave. So - just like PR says: BMW & Bangle will indeed stay in "tight relation" in the future as well.

I was about to ask about who was the replacement for Adriaan Van Hooydonk. Karim Habib perhaps? Or Verena Kloos?

To understand how Chris presents ideas and influence watch this.

YouTube - Chris Bangle presents BMW 1 Series

Unfortunately not everyone listens.

and who can forget?

YouTube - Chris Bangle: Great cars are Art

This is how Chris presents a project he does it in exquisite detail he captivates his audience and at BMW everybody listens because you learn that the car endures passion and innovation.
No other car designer or manufacturer allows such creative freedom as PR.

Karim is Director of Advanced Design Studio BMW Group right now. Verena still heads the DesignWorks. Verena is very successful there - so IMO she'll stay in Cali. Karim was promoted to the spot recently, so I expect him to stay there.

Perhaps Chris Chapman, or Anders Warming will be promoted to the Head of design BMW Automobile.
IMO Chapman has quite some chances to get promoted. He's a director of automotive design at DesignWorks at the moment.

What a change for BMW design dept. lately ... Boyer gone, Ninic gone, and now Bangle gone. All the "old guard" is practically gone.

Who is Boyer ? And btw Eni, you said that there was two visions for the iproject family, CB Team VS AVH Team but i thought everything was set by R&D and Marketing services ?

Good riddance.

Boyke Boyer is an ex-chief of Exterior Design BMW Automobile, and the author of E38 7er. He retired prematurely due some health issues - and later Anders Warming was put in his place. A year or two ago.


Strategy proposals are based on multidisciplinary analyses - incl. trend researches & predictions (tech, design, enviroment etc), technological progress forecasts, customer behavior analyses, legislation trends (eg polution, car safety), upcoming tooling techniques, production & logistic sloutions etc, competition scanning, SWOTs, branding & positioning aspects, financial point of product planning (predicted material & production prices, costs of capital etc) etc.

This is the frame set by marketing & R&D & finance mainly ... and within this frame several design strategies (the crative part) are made, and discussed. It's not all simple black&white situation. Different markets favour diferent things, yet the product has to be global. Every strategy is discussed & advocated heavily, and in the end BoD decides for right(?) one.

As I understand AvH & CB did support different strategies - and the one supported by AvH was more persuasive & suitable for some reason, I guess, and the BoD gave it a nod. It just happened last week. I'll try to find out what strategy was chosen.

Design process is still a creative & emotonal process -and I guess without sharing the same vision a confidence can't be built. I can't imagine Bangle advocating for a particular design of some future Project i cars when he doesn't even agree with the basis / vision on which that design is based.

Eg. imagine Bangle supporting modern & sharp approach, while the chosen strategy directs retro & soft lines. It's hard even to participate in such process, and even harder to advocate for something you don't believe in.



Back in early 90s BMW BoD had to decide what to do with BMW design. They only know something has to be done. So, they were choosing between: retro, avant-garde, evolution, revolution. And they opted for avant-garde on which all the "Bangle cars" were based. Incl. GINA - which was the mother of all inspiration.

They also had to pick design strategic for MINI & RRs well. And now Project i.




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PS: IMO (based on his history & ideology) Bangle was supporting one of the radical approaches for Project i, while AvH didn't.

It's also the truth Bangle said few months ago at some meeting he saw his role at BMW as "mission accomplished". He set up a great design team.

17 years working for same company ... Many bosses were gone, he stayed.

Could it be the man is already a bit tired as well?

Whatever ... I'm sure there will be tears in design department. Since he was a great motivator and tutor. With great hearth & great ideas. A great man!

He will surely be missed. He was the sun of BMW design departments. And the media also lost a star.




Also ... He will surely be written in the history of the aoutomotive designe as one of the most influential & forward thinking designers. As somebody said: he was Pablo Picasso of aotomotive design.

Boyke Boyer .

And where it all began ...

And of course another fascinating interview.

http://designtaxi.com/features.jsp?id=100246

And of course before the new model expansion , the eve of the E85 Z4 .

BMW - Driven by Design Sameer’s Stuff

Even more interesting reading.
http://darmano.typepad.com/for_blog/BMW_case_study.pdf

He's german ?

American, If im not Mistaken...