German Car Forum

Not much news lately for the 1er and 2er.

Its much to quit.

I'm beginning to think that the 2er coupe was just an idea to get us all jazzed about the possiblity of a 2002 predecessor...whatdoyahknow.... all we get is a girly 2er cabrio.... bah...

Agreed... it will be dissaponting otherwise!

And this is exactly why Audi should put over 300hp in the S3. But now the whole world will laugh at them for putting this stupid 2.0T 265 hp engine isntead of a 3.2 or 3.6 engine. Hope that by BMW doing this 135ti, will open Audis eyes!

I'd like to see the 135i hatch make it here (though it probably won't), would be ULTRA sick. I'd take one over an E92 335i coupe loaded to the roof.

Never in a million years.

Autoexpress says the 135i wil not come.

Scott enilab?

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/au...w_1series.html

My humble opinion is that a 130i is enough for a bmw model. Why do we need more power if a 130i can t handle the power without a M diff or lsd.

We only need more if M makes one. And that means no turbo please.

Look what packeisen did with 130i engine




haben wir uns entschieden den neu aufgebauten M3 Motor wieder herraus zu nehmen und den BMW 1er 3,0l Magnesium Motor weiter zu entwickeln.


Mit aufwendiger Zylinder Block/Kopf Bearbeitung, EFI Einspritzung und Einzeldrosselkomponenten sowie neu entwickelter Airbox, holten die Wuppertaler ersteinmal 340 PS aus dem in der Serie behaftetem 265PS Agregat.

so why a 135i bmw

340hp out of a 130i engine.

Yes, an Alpine White E81 was scooped in Cape Town during promo movie shooting.

135i ... according to my info no 135i until 235i, and 335si.

I4 engines (petrol & diesel) will be updated with E81 premiere & E87 facelift in Spring 2007.

E81 will also come with already facelifted 1er face, and 2.0l I4 turbo engine ... with around 200PS (either 204PS or 218PS): designated either 120si or 123i. I'm still not sure turbo model will be available at launch, are a few months later (with 2er cabrio announcement).


PS: I also forgot to say: there will be a B-pillar (AE are saying there is no B-pillar)! But just like 2er coupe, E81 3dr 1er's doors will come without window frame - just like on all BMW coupes. So B-pillar will be "hidden" behind glass instead behind door's window frame.

wow BMW are making a 2.0T, looks like they are taking a leaf out of audi's book again.

I hope the 2er will look niceer than the 1er.

hmm, a 2.0 liter and turbo, what so special with that? Many cars has used that formula and its nothing new.

But with more power , less weight , better dynamics,better steering and much better weight distribution - ouch! bet that hurts...

What early plans I have seen is that there will be a 135i 3dr But currently BMW are in the middle of finalizing plans for an M-badged Coupe and want this to be the focus at the top end of the model range in the long term.
BMW want this car to be the pinnacle of the 2er in the USA.

The new lower end turbo engine will be badged as 125i in keeping with the twin-turbo in the 3er as 335i . The upcoming V8 turbo seen first in the 7er will be badged as 745i - BMW wanting to keep the engine line-up in the "fives" realm.

I heard M2 still did not get a green light, yet it is in a final phase of decision. So BoD is just about to decide about the car ("go, or no go").

125i? Are you sure it will be badged 125i, and not 123i? That means it will definitely have same power output (218PS) as 3.0L N53 HPI engine in 325i, and not 204PS which was also an option.

OK, I see: it makes sense.

the VAG 2.0T comes up to 265hp so not more power, or not yet anyway. The standard A4 2.0T has 220hp anyway in the UK.

As for dynamics etc comments they are mute points as were talking about the engine and nothing more, but I could always pull out the MK2 TT as an example, you know the car that has been winning all those awards

It is when BMW used to rave about being NA so much. Plus we know that BMW saw audi's sucess with the turbo engines and followed suite as that BMW engineer said so according to a member from this site.

sorry to burst your bubble here, but if there is any brand that took over the BMW strategy, it's Audi. I'm not saying they're not good at it, but just be honest.

bmw taking copying turbo power and 4wd.

What is audi taking of BMW? Dont say NA cause there are loads of manufacturers using that philosophy that compete with BMW's, whilst not many use turbos that compete with the german premium cars.

BMW going turbo has nothing to do with Audi. Neither does Direct Injection. Those are technologies (along with Dual Clutch Transmission) which leads to lower fuel consumption paired with good performance. And most car makers go with this trend.

Audi was just the first brand which massively used these solutions in their model line - due their philosophy: Vorsprung durch Technik. Meaning they always strive to be first using upcoming technology (eg MMI, LED headlights etc). But that does not mean other car makers are not testing same tech & planning to use it.

Mind that most tech comes from cooperation with eg. Bosch, Siemens VDO, ZF, Getrag, Hella etc, so basicly its not something exclusive to Audi.

It's only about marketing: when to introduce the tech, striving to be a pioneer. Eg. BMW introduced iDrive concept few months before Audi, but that doesn't mean Audi copied BMW - since several similar system by different car makers were in development at the same time.

BMW goes with AWD more aggressively since demand for AWD in certain markets was so high & so determined that customers went to Audi since BMW did not have AWD models available. They just followed market's demand, not doing it due Audi per se.

I laugh at such claims as yours - because they are so naive & ignorant (mostly coming from very young people): saying that carmaker B that introduced a feature few month after carmaker A did it, did that due to follow / copy carmaker A's success. You should mind that some features (eg. engines) have very long development time. So - it is even possible that carmaker B started with the development before carmaker A did it. But I'm sure they both started development without a knowledge what a competition was developing.

So, why we then get similar / same tech (or even design) from different carmakers? Because of similar results from market / consumer / trend researches carmakers do!

Companies are not copying each other (unless we talk about Chinese carmakers ), but just following the market demands & wishes. With using the tech that is available at a certain time (relatively cheap & widely available).

But companies do copy each other 24/7 as thats a key element of becomign and staying succesful. Audi has had 4wd for decades now. Bmw used to say they will always remain RWD. They havent lived up to that promise. BMW always used to rave on about being NA. They havent stuck with that either (yes I know about the 2002ti).

Plus according to a member here a BMW engineer specifically said that BMW saw the success that audi were having with their turbo engines and wanted a slice of the pie. They then developed the great *35i engine as they wanted to do one over audi as noone was expecting it, and they suceeded with that. They are now making a great host of other turbo engines after they always insisted about staying NA an how great and wonderful it is.

4wd is admitedly arguable, but turno isnt when we have heard what the bmw engineer said.

What BMW engineer???? I have no idea what are you talking about ...
N54 engine was developed to offer extrordinary performance & relatively low fuel consumption - because market wants that. Not due Audi made some models with turbo engines. Btw, maybe BMW was "copying" Toyota, or Porsche, or Mazda - or any other carmaker that uses / used turbo engines. It's not all about Audi. Can you see now that your claims are ridiculous.

Also sticking to same technology is even not possible due to constant technological development. Eg. Quattro is also no longer 50:50 torque distribution setting (what was once advertised by Audi as "perfect"), but lately Audi is adopting rear biased 40:60 distribution (eg BMW in the ver 2.0 xDrive used before Audi did it - so is Audi copying BMW??? ).

BMW are still RWD (and also offer AWD models - due market demand, not due copying Audi), so are Audis still FWDs & AWDs.

BMW still stick with NA engines - but also introducing new tech: turbo. Why not sticking to NA only? Because they are not a boutique car maker, and they need to follow market demand who is demanding performance with LOWER fuel consumption. And turbo allows that. Also environmental regulation is responsible for turbos: sticking to big displacement NA would mean not meeting fuel consumption standards - which could leading to fines or even sales ban.

No matter how much you love Audi: do not flatter them too much.

"Copying" is there due market demand! Eg. BMW started to offer turbos & AWD due market demand lately - because they were "forced" to do it. Of course they were able to offer such tech before, but the didn't. So if they wanted to copy Audi, MB etc they could do it before. But right now the trend is in favour of AWD, turbos etc and carmaker just adapt to reality. Same is happening with eg. Hybrids. Or iDrive like systems.

When trends turn, "copying" also turns around - and "copiers" become "the copied".

I really don't see anything wrong with "copying" or for a company to release their own interpretation of another company's innovation. It pushes the boundaries of innovation and striving for the best.

If a company didn't want their idea to be copied, then they just had to file a patent.

This notion Young Worrior has that BMW is copying Audi is getting very immature and silly. I wish we could move on and stick with the topic of this thread.

Scott

Great news if they make an M version of the 2er coupe That s really a car that M needs. To get back the times of the E30 M3.

your claims that bmw copyied the 2.0T engine is ridicolous. If bmw copy someone its was impreza with 2.0 turbo and EVO 2.0 turbo, not Audi The japanese cars are great cars, we europeans have a lot to learn.

lol you do know that the impreza 2.0 turbo isnt refined, and if you use low RON fuel they have a tedancy to go pop! Oh and they have big turbo lag, I dont think bmw is trying to make a engine to compete with them at all. Completely different aims.

of course they were but BMW obvioulsy refined their engine compared to the japanese cars

anyway, now its time to stay on-topic, this is a 135i thread and not audi vs bmw. From now on every post is about audi will be deleted before this thread goes wasted. We have had our fun and its time to move on.

New pictures?

http://www.bilnorge.no/vis_artikkel.php3?aid=29963&tid=